Wonderful Update: Now only the expensive add-on's are compatible

Permalink
Update looks good, but since any of the free useful add-on's are now "Incompatible with this version of concrete5", it's not wonderful at all.

Now, how do I downgrade back to the old version without deleting and re-installing all over again? There should be a compatibility check/warning before processing the upgrade.

azvampyre
 
katz515 replied on at Permalink Best Answer Reply
katz515
I suggest concrete5 core team to send out an email to add-on developers.

Many add-ons could actually be working without doing any modification but just tell concrete5 Marketplace that their add-ons are 5.5.x compatible.

But I noticed that many add-on developers are not aware of this.

So I suggest that concrete5 team to send out email to add-on developers to let them know about it.

Thanks
azvampyre replied on at Permalink Reply
azvampyre
Wow! The Concrete5 developers didn't inform the third party developers before releasing the update?
That's extremely unprofessional.

That reminds me of the Viet Cong bombing one of their own highly populated cities, and notifying the citizens two hours after the assault, lol. Not really the same, but that's what came to mind.
LucasAnderson replied on at Permalink Reply
LucasAnderson
Actually, they did. It was also mentioned in MANY of the Totally Random live shows. In addition, many developers were part of the beta before release, and the core developers graciously gave us at least 3 months to prepare our addons for the new version.

Don't jump to conclusions based on one reply. I think what Katz is getting to is a 'reminder' email to developers about going into the addon settings and checking compatibility for the new version. (Which was already part of the instructions given a long time back.)

If you're concerned about compatibility on certain addons, I would suggest contacting the author of the addon you'd like on your site to see if they can update it for the new version. Chances are they might appreciate your heads up and give you a discount, and you'd most likely get a much better response than posting a gripe in the forums.
azvampyre replied on at Permalink Reply
azvampyre
First off, it's not MY responsibility to do the job of those making money on this garbage.
Second, if I want to "Gripe" I will do so. If you have nothing constructive in response to my post, then just keep your opinions (which is what they are; personal opinions) to yourself.
Not one word you trolled on my post answered any part of my original question, so your response is useless, thank you very little.
(And get a haircut you hippie!)
LucasAnderson replied on at Permalink Reply
LucasAnderson
My reply was to your comment about the core developers being unprofessional. Had I a constructive response to your original thread, I would have replied to that, not the comment above.

Nothing in my post was a personal opinion, except possibly my thoughts on what one of our international community members was trying to get across. The first paragraph was all fact, the last was an attempt at a helpful suggestion, to which you took offense to for some reason.

I know it's hard to relay tone and emotion in an online forum, but nowhere in my response did I attack you personally. So, I'm sorry for trying to help...
azvampyre replied on at Permalink Reply
azvampyre
I don't know what your origin language is, but the word "Gripe" is insulting in all Latin based.
Taken from old Latin Queritor, Gripe has the same meaning in English as well as Greek, meaning "to whine or complain excessively"
I understand that most people don't understand English, even if it's the language they were raised on, but as you said; you can't submit tone through non-verbal sentences, so those of us who study languages other than Java and Hypertext Markup take it literally, just as Java and C# will take binary code literally without any room for the slightest error (1's and 0's compared to English 26^10 or 141,167,095,653,376 combination's in 10 letter words alone) Just saying.
mkly replied on at Permalink Reply
mkly
I really need to start staying out of these all caps rage 5.5 threads but heck, it's late I'm too tired to work so why not.

You said...
"Wonderful Update: Now only the expensive add-on's are compatible"
Then you said...
"First off, it's not MY responsibility to do the job of those making money on this garbage."

So you don't think it's your responsibility to help out the people who are making money, but it seems like the people who actually need the help are the non expensive ones. Meaning the people who aren't making money.

I'm a little confused on this one.
azvampyre replied on at Permalink Reply
azvampyre
That's exactly what I said.
It's the Concrete5 team's responsibility to make sure that's taken care of.
Phallanx replied on at Permalink Reply
Phallanx
@LucasAnderson
Maybe. But what they didn't tell people was how to make them compatible and BACKWARDS compatible! The core team don't have to worry about backwards compatibility because they put the onus on the addon developers to do it.
LucasAnderson replied on at Permalink Reply
LucasAnderson
This might not have been documented well enough, but the ability to have multiple addon versions based on the version of concrete5 installed has been available for quite a long time now.

When you're managing your addon files, it allows you to upload a version of you addon for a specific concrete5 version. In this instance, you would update your addon with the new requirements for 5.5.1 and only set it for that version.
mkly replied on at Permalink Reply
mkly
@Phallanx

This is what I've been doing.
if(version_compare(Config::get('SITE_APP_VERSION'), 5.5, 'lt')) {
Phallanx replied on at Permalink Reply
Phallanx
@LucasAnderson
I don't subscribe to the multiple sources mentality. It's a maintenance loser.

@Mkly.
Me too. Ugly 'aint it!
if (version_compare(APP_VERSION,'5.5.0','>=')){
   $h = Loader::helper('concrete/dashboard');
   echo $h->getDashboardPaneHeaderWrapper("Miser", "Miser Optimisation Addon");
}
else{
   echo '<div class="ccm-ui">';  
}


And add to the above all the new bt->button instead of submits and the new CSS tags...very messy, very quickly
mkly replied on at Permalink Reply
mkly
Ya, I just do two views with that if them. I haven't had much other stuff beyond the view with my stuff fortunately. I think I had one this with the captcha because of the changes with that. I imagine you have to do a lot more of that
Phallanx replied on at Permalink Reply
Phallanx
Actually. For Miser itself I only had to make a new view (for the hook) and add an ignore (2 mins). The addon, however was a different story. Such is the beauty of the Muddled Verbose Confuser (MVC) pattern :)
LucasAnderson replied on at Permalink Reply
LucasAnderson
Speaking of Miser, are you selling it offsite anywhere?
Phallanx replied on at Permalink Reply
Phallanx
@LucasAnderson
Not really. People just email me. There's no website you can go to and click "Buy Now".
CIRESatCU replied on at Permalink Reply
Hi - I'm trying to implement and see how your Miser stuff works. I keep seeing bits and pieces and a screenshot which looks like you do have an addon available to use with Concrete5. If this is so, how does one get it? I'm having serious problems with site optimization and load and am hopeful that Miser can help, but would be nice to use an add-on with an admin user interface for using it.

Thanks!
-Kiki
fastcrash replied on at Permalink Reply
fastcrash
i think from now on, most developer will build from 5.5, and the backward compatibality for 5.4 will be deprecated

ps : i think azvampyre is a client who click 'update now!' link, not a developer, am i right azvampyre?
azvampyre replied on at Permalink Reply
azvampyre
You are correct Sir. I clicked update now as the big red letters suggested.
bizstarz replied on at Permalink Reply
bizstarz
“Actually, they did. It was also mentioned in MANY of the Totally Random live shows. In addition, many developers were part of the beta before release, and the core developers graciously gave us at least 3 months to prepare our addons for the new version.”

Instead of instinctively challenging azvampyre just because he or she dared to publicly criticize how badly concrete5 handled their latest round of updates, you should trying being a little empathetic and understanding. And do you even know how many (few) developers watch the Totally Random shows?

“Don't jump to conclusions based on one reply. I think what Katz is getting to is a 'reminder' email to developers about going into the addon settings and checking compatibility for the new version. (Which was already part of the instructions given a long time back.)”

Concrete5 developers have been strikingly slow to update their add-ons (I guess they’re not making enough money to make updating concrete5 add-ons much of a priority, which is not a good sign). So azvampyre (and many others) are definitely entitled to be frustrated by how many add-ons are not being updated quickly or ever. If concrete5 took this problem as serious as they should, they would have someone dedicated to making sure developers more quickly update their add-ons. Heck, maybe they could actually pick-up a phone and call developers who are slow to update their add-ons. Simply sending “reminder” emails is obviously not doing the job.

“If you're concerned about compatibility on certain addons, I would suggest contacting the author of the addon you'd like on your site to see if they can update it for the new version. Chances are they might appreciate your heads up and give you a discount, and you'd most likely get a much better response than posting a gripe in the forums.”

Are you kidding me? In case you didn’t know it, business people are darn busy these days and must choose their products and services by how much they help them do their jobs and grow their businesses. Saying that concrete5 users should chase down add-on developers every time concrete5 is updated is one of the rudest and clueless suggestions I’ve ever heard. If azvampyre drives a Toyota would you expect azvampyre to have to contact the third-party vendors that Toyota works with when there’s a problem, or would you expect Toyota to take care of that for azvampyre? In case you missed it on Totally Random, people choose concrete5 because they are being told that concrete5 is much easier to learn and maintain than other CMSes. Apparently that's not so true.
fastcrash replied on at Permalink Reply
fastcrash
hey bizstar, you have won troll badges, how did you get that?
bizstarz replied on at Permalink Reply
bizstarz
It’s really unfortunate and surprising how sophomoric people can be on c5 forums. It seems like whenever someone frustrated by c5 cites negative “facts” about c5, a bunch of emotionally charged fanboys who treat c5 as a religion instead of a service, post a bunch of nonsensical opinions that do little to solve the issue or advance c5.

In fact, I highly doubt any of the immature smart a$$es on c5’s forums can answer many (if any) of these questions:

1) How many people on avg watch Totally Random?
2) How many add-ons were and were not updated for v5.5 even a month after 5.5 was released?
3) What were the top selling c5 add-ons and themes in 2011, in copies and in dollars?
4) What criteria does c5 use to say a theme or add-on is “recommended”?
5) What were c5’s revenues in 2011 (or any year)?
6) What is c5’s primary source of revenue?
7) Does c5 have any financial backers?
8) What’s the primary source of c5 users?
9) What are the main reason(s) why most people overwhelmingly don’t choose c5 over other CMSes?
10) How many non-developers work at c5?
11) How come so few reporters write about c5 compared to other CMSes?
12) What do you think are the top 3 issues that c5 needs to address?

Don’t worry…I won’t hold my breath waiting on sensible answers.

C5’s official troll
fastcrash replied on at Permalink Reply
fastcrash
hahahaa.. i'm little scary now
i think you are the first troll in the c5 forum, congrat
maybe if you earn some karma point the curse will disapear
JohntheFish replied on at Permalink Reply
JohntheFish
I am reasonably happy with 5.5.1, but I would like to add to the list of complaints. The recent redesign of the troll badge looks nowhere near troll-ish enough ;-)
notzen replied on at Permalink Reply
notzen
I must admit he as couple of points that need some answer , i think point 2 and 12
mesuva replied on at Permalink Reply
mesuva
I'll have a go at these:

1) How many people on avg watch Totally Random?
- Looking on youtube, there seems to be around 130 watches per episode, I'm one of those. I'm sure they'd love more, but I'd also bet that many of the very active devs watch it.

2) How many add-ons were and were not updated for v5.5 even a month after 5.5 was released?
- I don't know these figures, but I do know at least all of the plugins supported by the concrete5 team were updated (they said so on Totally Random). I can't fault the concrete5 team there, it has been up the individual developers to update their plugins, or at least mark them as compatible. They are under no obligation to do so, it's all good will really.

3) What were the top selling c5 add-ons and themes in 2011, in copies and in dollars?
- I don't know. But concrete5's marketplace IS something run by a private company, with that data being private, so I wouldn't expect to find out. Hey, they might choose to release that info, but there is no reason they should have to. It's like me asking who was your biggest client and how much did they pay you..?

4) What criteria does c5 use to say a theme or add-on is “recommended”?
- I don't know either, but by the looks of it, the ratings of recommended plugins are all pretty high. Maybe it's the ones that sell a lot, maybe it's chosen by hand, who knows. It's a shop, shops recommend stuff not necessarily based on a publicly known set of criteria. I look for plugins I need to solve problems and the ones that are compatible with my systems, not the recommended ones anyway.

5) What were c5’s revenues in 2011 (or any year)?
- Don't know and it's none of my business. I wish them well.

6) What is c5’s primary source of revenue?
- Don't know, but it's none of my business either. I'd take a guess that it isn't the marketplace, but their own dev projects. They might sell a million c5 shirts a day, I don't know, but again, not my business to know.

7) Does c5 have any financial backers?
- Don't know, none of my business.

8) What’s the primary source of c5 users?
- I'm pretty sure it is people who try concrete5 out from the 'one click' installs that you'll find on many web hosts.

9) What are the main reason(s) why most people overwhelmingly don’t choose c5 over other CMSes?
- I think this is a loaded question. I don't think people overwhelmingly choose c5 over other things, I simply think that concrete5 hasn't had enough momentum or exposure yet. People don't even know it is an option. If you look up top cms systems, you'll get lots of articles comparing joomla, wordpress and drupal, so people check those out first.
Sometimes people choose Joomla because it has some plugins concrete5 doesn't have. Sometimes people choose Wordpress because they are trying to create more of a blog site, or there is a theme they really want to use, or because a developer knows it well. When other CMS systems are picked over concrete5, it's not necessarily because concrete5 is failing in any regard. Why do people pick fast-food?

10) How many non-developers work at c5?
- Don't know. Not really my business to know either. I know Franz said he doesn't do much dev anymore, so he's one. Maybe there is a tea lady/man and someone who irons the t-shirts before they get shipped, I don't know.

11) How come so few reporters write about c5 compared to other CMSes?
- Because compared to the others it is still very new. Joomla has a very old history for example. If you check out that CMS report that got published a few months back, you'll see the popularity of concrete5 IS rising though, things take time.

12) What do you think are the top 3 issues that c5 needs to address?
- I'd have to give this some thought. Not an issue as such, but I'm always looking for ways to speed up development and make things more 'foolproof' for my clients. The more foolproof stuff in concrete5 the better I think.

----

Just a little footnote on this enormous post: it's worth comparing the way how concrete5 handles updates, version and add-ons compared to Joomla... Joomla's last few major updates are a jumbled mess. Even though 1.5 is still available on their site, there is no official migration/upgrade tool to go higher. Plugins are all over the place, you don't get them from a central location, no-one checks or approves them... concrete5 IS doing a hell of a lot right in this regard.
notzen replied on at Permalink Reply
notzen
I agree with what you write .

Bravo Mesuva.
dandv replied on at Permalink Reply
dandv
6) Sources of c5 revenue: "about 70% marketplace, 20% hosting, 10% services"

[Source: frz inhttp://www.concrete5.org/community/forums/chat/shouldnand039t-all-a...

PS: This is my first post on the forum. Impressed with the looks and threaded structure, not so much with the editor. How do I add links? Does the editor used Markdown, HTML, BBcode or what?
Mainio replied on at Permalink Reply
Mainio
It is true that c5 might not be that transparent when it comes to these issues but I don't really know that many US based companies that aren't publicly listed that would give you the perfect information on these.

However, I don't feel that bizstarz should be ignored and called a "troll" just because he has won the troll badge. Everyone should get a second chance, right?

I've also previously told you that I'm a c5 developer and I at least think that I know some of those answers but maybe not all of them. I guess frz is not following this topic, so I might give you some of the answers I know (at least on some level):

1) How many people on avg watch Totally Random?
>> I think the number of live watchers is below 50 and people who watch the post-recording range from 50-200, you can see the actual number in ustream site. Yeah, not that many in total, so I also don't feel that "they told it in totally random" counts as an argument (although many of the things have also been said elsewhere).
EDIT: Actually as mesuva also told, YouTube is also one source for people watching, so you need to add up ustream viewers + youtube viewers.

2) How many add-ons were and were not updated for v5.5 even a month after 5.5 was released?
>> When the STABLE 5.5.1 was released, the number of 5.5 compatible was more than 50%.

3) What were the top selling c5 add-ons and themes in 2011, in copies and in dollars?
>> The core team has exclusively told that they don't publish these numbers. I would guess that the ones are top selling that have most reviews, so some blog add-ons and eCommerce must be the "top selling" ones. No idea about the dollars. There are more than 200 000 c5 sites out there of which a little less than half I believe is connected to the community (this would need backing up from some person with real information). So, if you make calculations based on that and assumed each site installs e.g. 5-10 add-ons, you would get total downloads of 500 000 - 1 000 000 per year for add-ons. Let's assume that there were 5000 new eCommerce sites per year, then that add-on would make total of 5000*$125=$625 000 (must be one of the top sellers).

4) What criteria does c5 use to say a theme or add-on is “recommended”?
>> They decide it or you can contact them straight yourself and negociate.

5) What were c5’s revenues in 2011 (or any year)?
>> No idea, you can also make some calculations on this yourself.

6) What is c5’s primary source of revenue?
>> Basic business: 50% add-ons / 50% hosting + other projects (I believe they still do some bigger software projects)
EDIT: And swag is one source, I bet that's not much but at least something...

7) Does c5 have any financial backers?
>> None, the company was founded with $2000, backing up as personal funds.

8) What’s the primary source of c5 users?
>> Probably a) google and b) 3rdparty agencies providing the software (again, don't know if this information is correct). This site's usage volume is currently 10 000 unique visitors per day and growing.

9) What are the main reason(s) why most people overwhelmingly don’t choose c5 over other CMSes?
>> Probably search engine visibility, print visibility (articles, magazines), and agencies promoting competitors. (again, just a guess)

10) How many non-developers work at c5?
>> I would GUESS the weight between developers and other ranges somewhere between 50% / 50% and 60% / 40%, the first number being the number of "developers". They actually just hired new people to their office based on which I made this assumption. Otherwise I would've guessed something like 70% for "developers".

11) How come so few reporters write about c5 compared to other CMSes?
>> It's still a quite young system just starting to gain more and more publicity.

12) What do you think are the top 3 issues that c5 needs to address?
>> This can be answered in million different ways but I'll give a business owner / developer perspective here:
1. Add-on review process time and add-on throughput time from submission to publication
2. Transparency to the developers and stakeholders on what's going on (totally random cannot be the only source of information)
(actually these two issues would be the most important ones personally to me, I just put down the 3rd one because you asked for 3 issues)
3. More detailed information and documentation of the system and related issues.


And why did I answer this although you have treated me like crap before? Because you keep telling that "c5 developers don't know anything", "c5 developers are bunch of fanboys", "c5 developers are very arrogant and stupid compared to my superior mind with answers to every problem on the globe".

Just trying to point out that while c5 is not perfect, maybe all c5 developers are not that stupid and arrogant fanboys as some might seem to be thinking?


Best,
Antti / Mainio
LucasAnderson replied on at Permalink Reply
LucasAnderson
:sigh:
dancer replied on at Permalink Reply
dancer
Where's my FREE Toyota Damnit?
adajad replied on at Permalink Reply
adajad
Whenever I buy a car I take it for a test drive and evaluate everything before I make a decision - even if I'm just going from one model year to another.
abra100pro replied on at Permalink Reply
abra100pro
I absolutely agree with you. While c5 is a CMS I d'love to work with the kind of documentation and information is so unprofessional that my working hours slip away like raindrop into the gully hole finding out stuff. For instance the totally random: 45 minutes of random fun for finding out 45 seconds of essential information - c'mon, guys. The really bad "search the forums" (and add-ons) is another bad part. Combined with the existing information policy (see 5.5 questions all over the place) it becomes lethal.

I do not want to start a rant, here. But there is one thing completely obvious: If the way of documentation and information isn't going to change I fear another very cool software will enter the history-hall of "would have been nice". Concrete5 won't survive. You may flame me for these open words but I bet future will prove me right. unfortunately.

I write this to bring in my point of view (which I guess is shared by many) and to evoce some changes. Please get into a serious discussion about it.
mesuva replied on at Permalink Reply
mesuva
While I don't disagree with you that documentation is critical to the success of a system, the question is: who is doing it right? What is the leading example that they should be copying?

The other question is, what is 'so unprofessional' about this documentation:http://www.concrete5.org/documentation/...
It appears well organised, full of screenshots, detail and applicable code examples. Yes it might need to be refreshed for 5.5, but it all can't be done at once.

The api is not pretty, but I've lost count of the number of times it has helped me develop something:http://www.concrete5.org/api/

What am I missing? (honest question)
utomo replied on at Permalink Reply
Can you list which one is not compatible and which one is compatible ?
By doing this, maybe can help little bit to find the solutions faster.

and also somebody else say that even it is not listed as 5.5 compatible, many of the add on is compatible with 5.5
notzen replied on at Permalink Reply
notzen
Hi Think we can create a separate tread for list the add-on that are not compatible with 5.5.1 ,

I have already a small list of some add-on that I try and they are not compatible .

The list could be useful for all the users.
bizstarz replied on at Permalink Reply
bizstarz
Great idea! But it's something c5's team should be providing. Instead, they seem to accept the snail's pace of add-on updates, and even act like it's not a big priority for them or a big deal for c5 users.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
Guys, there's a filter in the marketplace itself.
utomo replied on at Permalink Reply
I already create ones

http://www.concrete5.org/index.php?cID=270310...

please report it there.
Thankyou
notzen replied on at Permalink Reply
notzen
thanks a lot!

I just post my list there.
utomo replied on at Permalink Reply
Thankyou very much.

I hope others will follow. and lets make concrete5 better.
by giving good suggestion and feedback
abovecreative replied on at Permalink Reply
abovecreative
I'm the worlds worse person for not reading stuff and diving straight in but I have read this on numerous occasions so would never update any of my sites without making sure all addons I use work...
"NOTE: Many add-ons haven't been updated to work with 5.5 yet. If you've got an existing site that relies on stuff in the marketplace, you should try running this update on a backup copy of your site before upgrading live."
notzen replied on at Permalink Reply
notzen
this make sense for me , but I think that the question is that without this updates you get locked to the previous version unless you change add-on or until there is an update.

this could be not good for your site but you can live with it if the add-on is free .

in case of payed add-on you expect some update or some communication about it.

I want to precise that there is a good number of developers that do a really good in developing and maintaining support , so please don't take my post as a form of flame or accusation.

I just hope to see updates asap as all the community and the cms and the developer community will benefit from it.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
Just wow.

Uh.. We did send ur an email to developers, because ya know, we're not evil morons.

We will send out another one.

Good morning everyone. Happy monday.
notzen replied on at Permalink Reply
notzen
No doubt about it Franz !

It looks a sensible topic around the community ,

and remember that we feed the troll too :D .

I understand they are other priorities now, my advice for now is take a good cappucino , hey remember that is made with espresso coffee and tell the guy not to burn out the milk when it make the foam cream .

tony 16:50 pm (italy)

buon lunedi'