eCommerce

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We've got a product block, shopping cart, and some dashboard extensions in the works. We're building this stuff to power the marketplace here, and it will be available by the end of 08.

*Update*
We've released our own ecommerce solution:
http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/addons/corecommerce/...

frz
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Will replied on at Permalink Reply
Will
It would be nice to have feature for selling downloads in a zip file for templates, mods and such.
nolmscheid replied on at Permalink Reply
nolmscheid
Very anxious to see what you have done with both the Marketplace as well as the ecommerce block!
xori replied on at Permalink Reply
xori
Will there be a auction type block/application available as well? If not where would I be able to get some example applications for concrete5, so I can build my own?
nolmscheid replied on at Permalink Reply
nolmscheid
Any updates when the eCommerce Module will be available?
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
<grin>

obviously, this stuff exists. Go buy a c5kit in the marketplace and you're using it. Sadly - its not really ready to be stuck in a box and sold as a finished add-on.

We're going to keep working on it with a few clients on a time and materials basis - with the hope of getting something basic available in the first quarter of 09.

We're also going to be seriously investigating integration with existing solutions for this. I really have no desire to take care of coupons and inventory management, so look for integration hooks to common existing systems soon as well.

I apologize for the delay, I just wouldn't want to give you something I wasn't happy with.
nolmscheid replied on at Permalink Reply
nolmscheid
Thanks for the reply.

Coming from a background in eCommerce there is really a lot to the backends of these systems. It might be a very good idea to integrate something that is out there. Thousands of hours are spent creating some of these great systems, which many are open source.

It would still be great to see a clean and simple basic setup to be able to sell a handful of items right in C5.(Like you probably have started to run the Marketplace)

Can you send me a private message, I would like to discuss some things with you.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
that's basically what we're thinking... super simple commerce around selling a dozen or two products with no real complicated config or inventory issues, with the one perk being digital delivery of files for purchases.

then spend our time integrating with Magento Commerce and perhaps osCommerce.. The former seems to be the hot new thing in open source, the latter the well established piece of crap. xcart may be on that list too... there's so much out there thats barely good to my eyes, why add ourselves to the pile.

to me the only real sticky point is as a site owner i like the ability to pull a product from anywhere and add it as a block to a page. most ecom systems follow a strict category/detail architecture so our integration would be creating a space in the dashboard where you could import all that, some tools for automatically generating a category tree if you wanted, but really that "add product block" where a site owner can say "i really want to feature that cool product RIGHT HERE" with the same simple UI as anything else in c5..

incidentally, for others reading - we're thinking in similar terms about CRM... SugarCRM, Siebel.. etc.
nolmscheid replied on at Permalink Reply
nolmscheid
I think this would be a great system to get a tie built. They have a great following, a great marketplace, and a pretty stellar system.

Anyone interested in this challenge?

With that said, this is a very complex system so it would be very beneficial for C5 to still have a super simple eCommerce setup in addition to this.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
I'd be really curious to hear if anyone is AGAINST this being the first ecom integration, because from what little I know about it, they are far and away the best open source ecommerce app.

We're looking long and hard at integrating c5 with it for a consulting gig right now, so if there's a better app - please tell me!
nolmscheid replied on at Permalink Reply
nolmscheid
I have heard nothing but great things about Magenta over the years. I personally have not used it on a live site, but I spent a decent amount of time researching it, looking at the demos, the screen casts, etc. It is pretty impressive.

I noticed in their marketplace they have other CMS tie in modules available as well.

The wealth of modules/blocks that they have available is quite impressive.
liberalmark replied on at Permalink Reply
liberalmark
I wanted to weigh in on this because I recently used Magento for a client. On the surface it's impressive and loaded with features. However, it has some extremely odd server-configuration needs which makes it less portable than other systems. Moreover, as others have mentioned it is SO SLOW unless you have a host that meets their strict criteria.

We tried Magento with two hosts and it performed horribly. Then, when we moved it to a recommended host it performed very well. But not everyone wants/needs to or even has the ability to move to a host to oblige an ecommerce application's needs.

And above everything else, it is not built for the layman. I'm a veteran web designer/developer and was less than impressed with what I had to tackle to get it customized for my client. Web applications should be easy to use, like Concrete5 and Wordpress.

So that's my two cents on Magento. I hope it doesn't sound harsh. Just wanted to share my experience with it.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
That's great input. They're not part of what we're doing today, so we can talk as much smack about them as we want.

Lemmie ask you some follow up questions:
1) when you say slow, do you mean back-end, front-end or both?
2) what type of server did they want to make it fast? What was it that was making slow..
3) is there anything that has a similar feature set that is better in your mind?

None of those are meant to be loaded questions, they're all quite genuine as I'm about to tie my success to theirs. ;)
bcarone replied on at Permalink Reply
bcarone
Frz

Have you ever thought of using Virtuemart as your ecommerce solution?

It is pretty good and I have used it quite a bit with great success.
Oli replied on at Permalink Reply
Oli
Magento is loaded to the teeth with functionality and damn impressive for any wanna be amazon, but its also slow, cumbersome, and the code is overtly complex and largely undocumented. It has had an almost vertical adoption rate this year, but lately I've been hearing nothing but horror stories from people using it. For me, the Prototype / Scriptaculous used heavily on front and back ends makes the system a not so nice combination with anything I'm working on, especially in tandem with our beloved jQuery centric C5.

PrestaShop is the best cart system I've come across. Its open source, intuitive and very lightweight. The more I dig though the code the more I love it. Only the lack of customer groups is a bit of a draw back for one project I hope to use it on. For others I think The biggest drawback might be the small selection of payment gateways. Whatev I'm still diggin the hell out of Presta.

I also took a good hard look at Interspire's Shopping Cart 4. It does boast greater functionality (than Presta) though not by much. Interspire's products are extremely polished with a strong emphasis on workflow and a wide variety of solutions. There's just something about the built in templates that sucks, something cookie cutter and lame. Plus the system is commercial and focuses largely on hosted brain dead easy solutions.

I do have my qualms with the one and only built in template for PrestaShop. It goes for this poorly cribbed apple esque feel and on first look seems a far cry from the polish of Magento's modern theme. Then this one site listed on Presta's showcase really changed my perspective. Smallable.com, a beautiful example of customization. I reversed some of their code and am now seeing the stock Presta theme in quite an inspiring light, much like the stock c5 which seems to say, simply "this is a CMS that isn't going to get in your way." Presta's theme just shows off a bunch of great functionality loaded with loads of jQuery goodness.

Curiously speaking though, how would a Magento / C5 integration work?

Last thing, Concrete 5 rocks, so do its developers, so do their hysterically awesome blog posts. Props all around. Its damn nice to be off source forge.

Peas, -Oli
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
now this is very interesting to me because i've had similar concerns.

We were actually considering making concrete5 a ecom product before we released it as fully open source this summer. Right as we starting listing out the huge requirements involved in doing that right, we stumbled on magento and thought "well crap, that looks awfully sexy"...

I think that might be the response of just about everyone tho, and I'd LOVE to hear from some people who ACTUALLY used it.

I will totally check out those other solutions Oli.. I know we have to integrate with SOMETHING that's got some real power under the hood in the next 8 weeks for a client, so it's really a matter of picking the right app.
andrew replied on at Permalink Reply
andrew
This is very, very helpful.

I'm about to be evaluating these things in earnest, and c5's ecommerce aptitude will likely separate into a couple different applications. One will be a simple, self-contained one with pretty limited functionality, for those who really just want to get a c5 store up in a matter of seconds.

The second will likely utilize another system's support for things like coupons, shipping APIs, etc... and we'd hoped that'd be magento...and I was about to start looking into their API. Hadn't even considered the possibility that they might be using competing javascript frameworks =) (whoops!) so this is an interesting thing to ponder.

Definitely will check out prestashop and smallable.com. Thanks again..
nolmscheid replied on at Permalink Reply
nolmscheid
I think Magento is really worth a shot as a system to write the first bridge to. It is really a great product. This weekend i spent a bunch more time with the demo on their site, reading the forums, etc. I checked out some of the big time sites that use it and it seems very solid.

Is it big? YES, very. But, with that comes a lot of great blocks/plugins available for it. When things get super big, and lots of options, there is obviously more chance for hiccups or bugs, but I think overall it's quite good.

I will also check out the others listed. Like everyone said. The BEST eCommerce tie in is probably going to be something that comes from the C5 Core Team, but with time as an issue I think a tie to one of the best (not perfect) systems out there is a great idea.

Then, it makes sense for the Core team to really plan out a killer eCommerce module that falls in line with the C5 technology mentality.
teknojunkey replied on at Permalink Reply
teknojunkey
I have recently used opencart over magento due to the size and speed. Its worth a look.
nolmscheid replied on at Permalink Reply
nolmscheid
Speed of building out a site, or are you speaking in terms of performance with the software?

I just went to all of the showcase sites that Magento has on their website. (Posters.com, HomeMedics, etc) I was really impressed with the user experience, which I rarely am. Love the entire checkout process as well.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
I really appreciate the fact that we can benefit from all of your real world experiences here on the topic. I asked on linkedin and i get next to complete dribble as an answer. ... any rate - just a thank you aside..


in my mind - what we need is the back end logic.

whatever we were integrating with, I wouldn't want the end user to see much of any of it.

perhaps the cart.
In my mind, there would be a interface in the dashboard where you could import, update, and buildout the product catalog available in the c5 powered site. So your magento install would be something only you would look at.. add products to in whatever category made sense to you there... then you'd come to the c5 site and "update" things... that might involve building out a "create tree" tool or something.. we'll have to see..

my interest is in the check out stuff (product options, coupons, discounts, shipping, etc.. ) and the admin/backend stuff (inventory management, order entry/processing.. etc)

If i can find any good system that works as the backoffice for a company with thousands of products rather than a few dozen.. that's worth it..

frankly its hard to not look at something like Oracle. .. if all i want is the backend logic, gimmie that. (i say all of this totally committed to doing a simpler cart for small business on our own)

the huge unspoken benefit to us all is if c5 gets good tie-ins to market leaders we wont help but to have continued growth as an open source product.
Fardilha replied on at Permalink Reply
Fardilha
I have to agree with Oli.

The more I search for a good e-commerce system, the more I like PrestaShop.

It's amazing how all carts clearly state that the code is independent of the layout but if you need to change even a small thing on the interface, you find yourself hacking the code again and again.
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ijessup replied on at Permalink Reply
ijessup
I have used Magento and osCommerce, and I favoured Magento. However, my client continuous called to have my put products on and well.. essentially manage his online store.

Point being: Magento is awesome powerful, but a pain-in-the-ass for the intarweb n00bs.

If you could combine Magento's flexibility with c5 in context editing you would have an absolute winner.

Something that would be very interesting is to see c5 move to a jQuery interface. Where you drag and drop blocks/elements onto the page. This would be incredibly easy for people who want to run an eCommerce site.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
in the last paragraph, you mean have magento move to a jquery interface, no?
ijessup replied on at Permalink Reply
ijessup
If there is going to be a commerce module for c5, why not work some jQuery in there? And if the commerce module uses it why not all of c5?
Remo replied on at Permalink Reply
Remo
maybe I didn't get your question right but concrete5 uses jQuery all the time?!?
ijessup replied on at Permalink Reply
ijessup
After rereading what I wrote, I guess I was a little too excited over the idea of such a convergence that my ability to communicate failed me. :p

What I meant was making both the Magento and c5 interface more "drag-n-drop" style.

For example, it would be cool if, while you created a new page/product, you have a "blocks" pallet where you can drag and drop blocks onto the page and arrange them the way you want.

That would be the ultimate WYSIWYG CMS. At least in my opinion.
James replied on at Permalink Reply
Hi there,

We are currently adding a number of new features to c5 (e.g. olap authentication and oracle database tests), we have also created some new blocks which if you like we will post on the c5 community (such as registration block, jquery gallery etc.)

We are also trying to integrate at the moment with Prestashop - we wondered if you guys are still pursuing this. Also is the MarketPlace block / App available do we have to purchase it?
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
I know we're doing some stuff for OpenID for an upcoming version that you should be aware of if you're doing a authentication hack.

We're not looking at prestashop - but we are looking hard at magento... integrate away!
Remo replied on at Permalink Reply
Remo
olap is data warehouse stuff, not authentication. Did I miss something?

Having some olap stuff would be cool but I don't think a cms needs olap....

But OpenID would be cool!
stitchadoodle replied on at Permalink Reply
I've been playing with Magento for a few months, and love the interface. My criteria for using Magento, as opposed to any of the others, or a cms:

1. User interface: Magento interface is really easy to understand; nearly every option has a helper description for us non-programmers, and lots of them have recommendations for default or usage. Product adding (for me) isn't difficult as much as you just really need to think about how you want to tie each product in with others (upsell, cross-sell, grouping, etc.) & pay attention to what you're doing (n00bs aren't always consistent with these parts)

2. eCommerce: My biggest criteria is that since there is the possibility that i could sell my products at retail, wholesale and distributor pricing levels (and maybe one more level), i really needed to have the ability for different pricing structures that would implement at a user/group account level. Magento does this.

(One cms alternative to this that i've seen recommended often is to give each customer a discount coupon code of their own, which really isn't a solution in my mind.)

3. Payments/Shipping: I'm less worried about coupons and special sales, probably more worried about taking credit card payments and incorporating/automating shipping. Magento seems to do well with both of these.

4. Stock: I'm not so interested in keeping track of stock, but it's easy to do in Magento so i will use it.

5. Financials: There is talk of a Magento/QuickBooks integration; when this happens, I personally will be all over it. This is always a valuable module/block/whatever.

6. Templates: Templating could be much easier, but there are a few things they've done recently to help with that. Still trying to figure this out on my own, but i'm not a programmer so i've yet to decide how it's ultimately going to work out for me.


Personally, I like my site functions separated (WordPress, phpWiki, bbPress, etc.), but there are even a multitude of difficulties with that, and I still haven't decided if I want to trade off easy site-wide client login and consistent visuals for ease of backend management.

The right CMS would make all the difference, and c5 really has that look for me. Functional eCommerce in a friendly cms would be the ultimate solution.

Please please please make an eCommerce extension, or incorporate with something as wonderful as Magento!!!! I would be willing to shoot some $$ toward this one.
nolmscheid replied on at Permalink Reply
nolmscheid
Great write up stichadoodle!

Your information was very informative. My thoughts are very similar to yours in the little that I have done with Magento.

I am anxiously awaiting a great solution. In the time being we are planning to give Magento a stand alone test soon.
stitchadoodle replied on at Permalink Reply
Thx ;)

I would like to add that I actually got to play around with c5 in a bit more detail tonight, and it's AWESOME! This is exactly what I've been looking for in a cms.

I've been mulling over the ideas for incorporating a cart, and I like the idea (frz's?) idea of using something like Magento as a sort of static database, using it to pull from to display product into c5.

I guess this is a relatively important thing for me to figure out soon, as my priority now is to decide if my index page is a cms or if my clients should be directed right to my store.

Ideally, I would love to have products front & center on my landing page, with other site context at the side(s). I'm not interested in a "store" looking site; I'm really trying to go for an incorporated sort of look, where my clients can view a product, but also see in a side block all the tutorials I will have related to that product, and forum questions related to that product, and blog entries related to that product. And other products that the client may like, also related to that product.

This is my dream. ;)
jgarcia replied on at Permalink Reply
jgarcia
I just wanted to throw in my two cents regarding c5 ecommerce integration. I don't have any personal experience with Magento, other than playing with it briefly at opensourcecms.com. But from what I've read that others have said, the two biggest drawbacks are:

1. Complex/not very intuitive.
2. Slow.

Though my opinion doesn't count for too much since I don't have any personal experience with Magento, I will say that if these drawbacks are accurate, then they are HUGE drawbacks. The opposite of these is what I love about c5 (it is intuitive and rather fast). I worked for about three years for a company that used DotNetNuke as the CMS for our clients, and it was feature-packed but incredibly slow, and for that reason I grew to despise it.

I hope to be do a little more research into these ecom systems in the next few days...PrestaShop looks interesting.

If there is an ecommerce system out there that matches the intuitiveness, speed, and functionality of c5, that would be a beautiful thing... :)
nolmscheid replied on at Permalink Reply
nolmscheid
I am going to ask this again as a few stated that they think Magento is slow.

What portion of Magento is slow? The Front End the user sees or the back end?

So far I have not noticed it on either so I am really curious. We have an instance of it running on our dedicated server.
stitchadoodle replied on at Permalink Reply
It's not hugely slow on my front end, but i only have about 3 test products in so far.

My back end seems just a slight bit slower than front end, perhaps on the order of ~3=4 seconds to load a page or to save changes. Feels slow to me, but I also tend to be impatient so I'm never sure if it's just me or what.

I've talked to a few developers who recommend using a service provider that is "Magento-optimized". I can infer what that is but I'm not a programmer so details are unclear. I also don't feel that my site is so slow that it will turn away users, but this may be a different thing with hundreds of products. Plus the developers tend to also be the service providers, so there's that to consider also.

Ok, just loaded my site & it took about 9 seconds to get home page (yike! that was abnormally long), but then about 4 seconds to get to a product page. 2 seconds to get back to home page. 2 seconds to link through from another site. I think 2-3 seconds is much more normal.

Possible there's something back-end going on for first visit upon restart of browser/cache clearing? May test that.

Not very precise, but hth.
ossi replied on at Permalink Reply
Hi folks,

first of all let me just say that I came across c5 3 hours ago. I have loaded it up and I was pleasantly suprised at its clean look and smooth useability. I set it up on a virtual server at my ISP and it is flying.

Next I tok a look at blocks building and I think I am going to have fun with this.

Now to the reason for this response, I am sorry but a 2-3 second response on a test system ( which I am assuming to be local) with 3 products I would say is baaaad. Also, if people are reccomending that magento should be installed on a "magento optimised" environments then that should start the ringing of alarm bells.

So, my 2c worth. Look for something else. Sadly, I do not have any experience with these kinds of systems so cant offer any more advice.

Keep up the good work though, I love what you've done.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
Can you post a copy of the phpinfo() output on your box?

I rarely find c5 to be slow, as in 3 seconds for a load slow, certainly not on a local install.

Is this a development box you're running some other stuff on as well?

Are you using RC2 or 5.1?

Regarding Magento's slowness - I'm not sure what to think.

The backend is huge, for sure. They're using a lot of libraries for what they're doing - certainly no "lets take a second to clean this out" from a JS angle. I think the sitemap page on Magento has 600k+ in Javascript alone!

In my mind, as long as the front end is clean & fast for visitors, I can put up with some bloat on the backend if it means those libraries can be more easily updated over time.

In the big picture - I think we're gonna have a "lite" fast cart as a c5 add-on, and then some type of elegant way to wrap magento for people who are running big bad stores and don't mind tweaking their install environment for one app's performance.
stitchadoodle replied on at Permalink Reply
I should clarify, those access times I posted were for Magento, not c5. Also, I'm not on a Magento-optimized server, I was just recognizing that people who are selling or providing such a product are recommending it, so buyer beware.

I'm hosted on BlueHost because Magento requires php5+, and they have it. Magento is a bit slow to me, but keep in mind that I'm an impatient user and have yet to encounter a computer or internet access that is fast enough to make me happy.

I'm not a programmer, and I'm not on a test box or anything like that; my company is start-up so I'm just fooling around with it live.

I also have a tendency to break software and haven't really managed to do that yet with Magento or c5, so that's quite an accomplishment there, as far as I'm concerned. (And I've done one or two pretty ugly things with c5.)

I really think the front end of Magento performs better than the back end, and I can live with that.

C5 is speedy and I have no complaints about it. In fact, quite the opposite.

If there's anything I can do to help out with this project as an end-user try-to-break-it-person or documentation-keeper, let me know.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
I'm always interested in people who want to help with documentation, it eats so much time.

See a hole? write something up. We could really use some case study articles about how/why you moved from some other platform (say drupal, wordpress, joomla) to c5..
MikeUK replied on at Permalink Reply
Hi all

First post and actually only registered now to make this post (although I was planning on joining anyway).

I'm a Joomla / Virtumart guy (as in I'm using both all the time), and I have been looking for a different CMS, not as a replacement, but because I feel Joomla is entering the 'better for big / complex site' territory and would like to find something 'lighter' but also with that modern touch. I might be wrong, but I think you guys have got it. Great look and feel so far (both to the system and site).

HOWEVER, what you have here and Magento is not a good match. For what it's worth, I think Magento, for it's sheer complexity and requirements, needed to be a complete CMS. No matter how good the technical integration, from a users point of view it won't be right.

I think, unfortunately, Magento has gone down the Microsoft route. The software will determine the hardware. However, Magento would need a stronghold of the market to make that happen. For me the issue with that is that it's for an online shop. What do people want? They want ease of use, speed, security. And perhaps an attractive look. For me that means sleak, lightweight, and a decent template and shop structure.

Virtuemart and Ubercart (Drupal) are on the right track. That have focused on the interaction with the CMS, not to try and overpower it. OsCommerce proved that big is not always better. Look at Zen Cart. All they did was make a light-weight OsCommerce with better templating.

I think Contrete5, and any CMS nowadays would benefit greatly from an e-commerce connection. However, at least get something less bloated than Concrete5. Personally, I think the ideal would be a custom add-on, keeping to the principals of the CMS. If I had the level of skill required, I'd offer to attempt it myself.
beeman89045 replied on at Permalink Reply
with just a simple PayPal block (and associated image) ...

Not that my opinion counts for much, but on the whole, I agree with the sentiment of the inevitable challenges of a C5 / Magento bridge.

Though they are commercial, I think a block implementing a SaaS vendor like Foxy Cart or Shopify would be far more useful to the average C5 user.

Foxy Cart has a clean, C5'ish cart/checkout as well.

Or PayPal ... did I mention PayPal? ;-)

Maybe this could be my first block project ... that or Google Calendar.
ScottC replied on at Permalink Reply
ScottC
is very easy to do. I recommend it for someone learning how to make blocks.

To simplify the block, I would make two, one for a physical product and one for a downloadable product.

I have this one around here somewhere, will revisit it shortly.

I wasn't aware of another cart SaaS, I will look into shopify.

If foxycart used a more secure form with pricing I would use it. Seeing as I would mainly sell downloads or create a singlepage in the dashboard that parsed the foxycart xml feed, I wouldn't really worry about someone editing html and buying a macbook for $0.39
beeman89045 replied on at Permalink Reply
sorry Scott ... SaaS obscure acronym meaning "Software as a Service". IMO, making a robust cart would be a fairly large project and using a SaaS-like offer might be a good hybrid approach for the likely users of C5.

Not that it wouldn't be wonderful to have cart functions in C5 natively.

I don't know much about Foxy except for their website info. I do prefer Paypal's encrypted form method, however. Shopify is a RoR hosted cart.
fangtastic replied on at Permalink Reply
fangtastic
I to have been looking at prestashop in fact i only came across c5 because i was looking for a cms to go with prestashop.

I have decided to keep mine all separate including the forum so that if i have a failure on one i'll can use a standby static html page to direct people to the other parts of the site.

I've used joomla in the past but n'ya it feels too big. i like C5 because at first i thought it was really simple, simple enough for my wife and daughter to use, but the more i use it the more i discover it can do. i did html in college more than ten years ago and loathed it, C5 has kindled in me an enthusiasm i never knew i had!

anyway i dont believe convergence is always a good thing so id like to see blocks etc for a shop but then set up the site the way (i think i understand this right)some multi language sites are ie

site1 en
site2 de.

Instead
Site1 info/reviews/blog
site2 shop/products
site3 forum

with a bridge or what ever to link the two iframe or however you do this stuff. i know this would be the way for integration with magento or any other external system but im talking about any C5 driven system.

I like to add here as well that i to have researched a lot of ecommerce software and set them up under xampp inc zen, osC presta, cubecart, joom/virtua and many many more.

While i like the sound of magento, regardless of how it ran local i had to consider my current host and i was very concerned that my current host would not handle it so i decided to look else where.

I even looked at the wordpress ecommerce solution i saw a great site...somewhere based on this templatehttp://www.kriesi.at/demos/?wptheme=Javazine... which is the kind of thing im looking for, i may even have gone for that had i not found and tried C5.

The deciding factor was in 5 mins with C5 my wife had made a website she was happy with after 30mins with wordpress et al she was shouting at me. No Contest.

back to the matter in hand my thinking being if one goes down, i'm left with either a simple shop or a info/blog or forum with some 404's but not nothin'.

Like stitchadoodle above i too break software. i broke C5 big time trying to resolve a problem with the scrapbook and was left with nothing but a white screen. having something in place while the rest gets fixed would be nice.

just my two cents.

i may even sign up to your fanboy section....if you had one [grins]
jgarcia replied on at Permalink Reply
jgarcia
Boy...this conversations getting pretty long isn't it...

Does anyone have any experience with opencart? I was checking it out a little today on opensourcecms and it looks like it might be okay.

I have yet to find anything in the way of e-commerce that makes me think "yes this is it!" like when I first used c5...
bcarone replied on at Permalink Reply
bcarone
Was reading this thread today and took a look at some of the lightweight eCommerce packages. Unfortunately, tho I liked the way FoxyCart looks and ease of use from a developer/designer outlook, the cost is not to my liking.

If I am going to go to the trouble of using a cart, I want full control of it, where ever I may be hosting. FoxyCart does not allow that. It is a hosted service. Good looking eCommerce package I must say but not for me.
Oli replied on at Permalink Reply
Oli
fangtastic: using an iframe is a clumsy solution. Better to AJAX in navigation content to the presta pages, and cookie up a cart value for the top right on c5 temp--a-lates.

Watch out for the lack of payment gateway integrations and shipping providers working with Prestashop. It's still quite early in development.
Oli replied on at Permalink Reply
Oli
bcarone: Foxycart is cheap in comparison if you require integration with your favorite CMS, payment gateway, SSL certificate, live shipping quotes, great template caching, one page checkouts, user registration, quick account recall, tax rules, subscriptions, downloadable products, and loads of other stuff.

If you're already paying $50 a month to your payment gateway, another $15 to FC is totally worth it.

If you're just using basic Paypal and feeding transactions into their brutal front end, that's a whole other ball game:http://www.thewojogroup.com/2008/10/simplecartjs-paypal-e-commerce-...
Oli replied on at Permalink Reply
Oli
Quick solution to integrate FoxyCart with C5:

Create a new page template for your products and use foxycart form links. Then pull values for things like price and product names from custom page attributes using this snippet:

<?php echo $c->getCollectionAttributeValue('attribute_name') ?>
beeman89045 replied on at Permalink Reply
is another possibility. I would characterize it as a FoxyCart-like solution (in the sense you are effectively plugging-in bits of PHP here and there to make up your store), but locally deployed.

Licensing is relatively affordable and it is a robust Cart solution (tons of gateways, many product options, nice UI).

Anyway ...
jgarcia replied on at Permalink Reply
jgarcia
if c5 is going to integrate with an e-commerce solution, i'd like it to be a free open-source solution. that could just be me being cheap. that's not to say it couldn't function with multiple shopping carts, but if there were a "featured" e-commerce integration, i'd like to see it be free.

that said, the problem is that i really don't know if there is a *great* open source e-commerce system available. i've been playing around with them lately, as i've been wanting to find one that i can stick with as the one i will use for sites i design. however i have yet to find one that to me is the "c5 of e-commerce" (meaning, i feel like i can stop looking for others once i get there). that's probably one reason this conversation has been so long - i just have yet to find something that it's absolutely great.

maybe i'm being too picky, or maybe there's something out there that i have yet to stumble across...
beeman89045 replied on at Permalink Reply
unless you count Magento as being the One <insert cliche LOTR line here>.

I liked OpenCart's simplicity, but the community has never seemed particularly active. And there have been many bugs reported on the Paypal gateway integration.

Maybe just me, but if you are running a serious online business, you shouldn't have an issue with a nominal license or monthly fee. $15/mo or a $150 license is a drop in the bucket; just another one of the many costs of doing business.

Just another 2c opinion to add to the pot
ScottC replied on at Permalink Reply
ScottC
this is all well and good, and I totally love foxycart. It would take me forever to recoup the costs of writing my own shopping cart or integrating one vs just going with what they have.

I do like your idea of using collection attributes. You could easily provide a xml datafeed consuming service that throws out an email to admin if "hidden" form values do not match sometihng that is either block or collection attribute specific, depending on how you want to store the data. Great idea there.

e-junkie aside from the terrible name is essentially the same product with better affiliate (well it exists.)

There is a Brett that works on foxycart and one on e-junkie, i wouldn't be surprised to see that they were the same person.

PCI compliance is also included, not having to worry about that would make me sleep better at night :)
ymne replied on at Permalink Reply
ymne
It must be an open source ecommerce and be free of charge. You're not cheap jgarcia, what you're saying make sense and should stop others to hear it.

C5 is free (most of it, except for some blocks and forum coming up). But that's okay.

FoxyCart is surely very good, and for me, it seems that some of you had working with it and like it a lot. That's okay too. I understand.

BUT it is not FREE! So I strongly suggest to find another solution, a more appropriate one. As jgarcia, I don't know if there is a very good free open source out there, but I better like PrestaShop or Magento (but some say no) than the others one who's going in another direction or philosophy. I don't like this kind of mix...

In advance, I'm sorry that some of you will not agree with me, but that is also okay. It's a free world, you know.

What can I say, cheers jgarcia!
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
Well,

speaking as the dude who decided to give away c5, it's hard to give away a shopping cart too.

I mean CMS, sure people are using this thing for all sorts of good causes - or at least personal ones...

But if you're gonna sell something? surely it's worth it to have something with a little revenue, support, and good thinking behind it?

i dunno, we're using magento now and it's basically got one of everything - but man it's a nightmare to figure out and slow as hell on the backend.. even those guys are planning on having an 'enterprise' version one day (something we'll never do)..

when we do finally get our ass in gear to release the shopping cart script we use here with some simple stuff - it'll be cheap - but not free..

paypal buttons work fine in c5, and that's free... ;)
ymne replied on at Permalink Reply
ymne
I understand what you mean.

And what about a simple basic version free (for a x max. items and another one commercial with a fee for the license? Why not?

Or isn't possible to do it with PrestaShop? The support community is very proactive.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
both work by dumping a little JS code here or there, i think if you're looking for an absolutely free solution that's where i'd look..

both are obviously stable and not going anywhere.
beeman89045 replied on at Permalink Reply
with your sentiments on receiving some kind of compensation for a cart Franz.

The "Open Source" movement has produced some wonderful byproducts, but I also think it has set the [wrong] expectation that any and all web-functions can and should be supported for free in some manner.

Putting this in perspective, we use Paypal today. Based on this discussion, it seems many people would balk at paying $50 for an integrated C5 script. But nobody seems to complain that Paypal's service isn't free.

If you are doing any serious online sales, you will quickly find out that $50 is but a drop in the bucket compared with Paypal fees. Paypal is pricey, but even with alternatives you're going to pay 1.8-3.0% / txn depending on the contract and Card + $20-$40 in maintenance fees / merchant account.

I fundamentally disagree with the premise that everything a well-intentioned Open Source shop does must be provided free of charge out of some misguided principle.

If you're running a business, then it's a cost of doing business. Just like a Point of Sale system, payroll, employment taxes, supplies etc.

<stepping off soap box now>
jgarcia replied on at Permalink Reply
jgarcia
I've been meaning to respond for a while, but been rather busy lately, so I'm not getting around to it till now.

While I totally see your point djn, and agree that $50 can be a drop in the bucket with regards to many other costs associated with running an e-commerce site, I don't think it's wrong to hope for and want to see a *good*, free e-commerce solution.

There is a lot of good, free software out there (there's lots of bad free software too). And every now and then you come across free software that is excellent and fits all your needs perfectly (C5 for example!). However, with regards to the e-commerce world, the only free software I have found I would label as "decent"...nothing good or excellent.

Of course, this is totally an opinion. Some people might find PrestaCart or Magento to be excellent (just like some people might think Drupal or Joomla is excellent). I just don't and have yet to find something that fits that bill. That's okay, and I'm not complaining. Maybe I need to be the one to get the ball rolling on that.

Blame it on C5...they set my expectations too high. :)
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
aww you know how to bookend a comment in sweet words don't ya? ;)

I think the push back you're getting is because of the purpose of the app...

a truly free and great ecommerce solution is probably never coming for two reasons:
1) its hard. ecommerce is a real challenge for many reasons..
2) YOU are gonna make money with it..

i think there will be more and more crippleware solutions, etc.. but truly free the way c5 is free? i dunno..

that argument feels like saying "MP3's should be /free/, i'm not paying a buck a track! ... oh, but i'm gonna put them on a mix cd and sell that out of my trunk."
NickjUK replied on at Permalink Reply
I've got a little job in hand which is revamping an os-commerce driven site , os is good but for a site that is never going to have more than 40 products it's overly complex and a severe case of overkill. I also want to get the shop seperated from the site design and cut out the the supefluious 'extras'(http://flutterby-creations.co.uk... )Most of the other backends are similar, way to complex for whats needed.
This is for a friend (my good deed for the year LOL)so it won't be free but I'm going to be very tight on my margins just covering costs really.
I'd be very interested (to the point of putting money where my mouth is) in a small scale solution that integrates nicely with Concrete and uses a similarly very user friendly interface. Then I can deliver her a little shop built into a nice working environment (Concrete5 of course. The big plus being she can manage it pretty much all herself and add the extra features she wants in a nice lean package without having to step outside too much.
Later I can use Concrete5 as the base for a disability access site she has dreamed up, being disabled herself she has a good insight into what she wants and needs from it. Again it'll be Concrete5 to the rescue.

So Franz any chance of a rundown on what you have at the moment and maybe some code heading my way, not free of course!!
beeman89045 replied on at Permalink Reply
Not sure if FoxyCart is UK compliant (in terms of currency, etc.), but that *kind* of solution would be ideal in this isolated case if C5 isn't going to support eCom anytime soon.

Writing a FoxyBlock - so to speak - wouldn't be that hard depending on what you want it to do.

Clearly - like most - I'd rather simple eCom be native to C5, but in the interim ...
bcarone replied on at Permalink Reply
bcarone
NickjUK I agree with your comments.

Franz for what its worth, I am still amazed at what you have done for the community (designers/developers) by releasing C5 to open source.

I for one would certainly be interested in your features list of your e-commerce solution. What sort of payment portals are available to it? Ease of use? Portability from one server to another? All those normal questions one asks when debating on the e-commerce package to use.

Again, I would pay for it. Just one way of supporting Concrete 5.

-Bill
ideasponge replied on at Permalink Reply
ideasponge
First let me just say that if I were a woman, I would have your baby, c5 rocks so hard the stars tremble. Ok enough ass kissing.

So do we have an update on the release of this package? This is something I too would pay for and I sure hope it comes soon.

Our company is soon to be launching and it would be nice to be able to use an actual eCommerce Package built for c5, by the c5 core team.

Our product is selling Content Management Services and web marketing (SEO blah blah) using the c5 CMS and I know a shopping cart solution will be a big request from my clients, (already getting some and we haven't even officially launched).

I might even be willing to help pay for the development of the solution in the first place, depends on how close to a finished product it is.

So I will reiterate my point to this posting in case it got lost in my rambling.

Do we have an ETA on this feature?

Thank you
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
same story as it has been for some time - the cart exists, the product block exists, there's nothing packaged up in a way that would make it meaningful for anyone but us, and there's no huge list of gateways it can connect to.

There's a plan - but we've been pretty focused on the file manager in 5.3 recently. The magento integration is working, but its a huge beast and to be honest having got as far as we have in it, I can't really see an easy way to make that a downloadable "thing".. it'd be a service at best..

We've got some big ideas around this ecom integration from c5 and when we launch it - it will be cool. For now, hack something with google cart or paypal buttons. ;)

Oh, thank's for the compliment - feel free to post to the guestbook athttp://concrete5.org/about/testimonials...
jincmd replied on at Permalink Reply
jincmd
I am glad to read of the collaboration in the works with Magento. By FRZ Himself?
I am at early stages of building an ecommerce retail site. Only discovered c5 1month ago, I have no yet even set it up or tried anything other then watching the demo video, and reading people praises.
I am no coder and therefor have hired someone to make my complete system off open source code. Although now seeing you guys are reconstructing magento for c5, i'm wondering when that will be ready and if highering someone to customize was the right decision. Either way we will be incorporating C5 along with either presta, or opencart. Both of those seem to be lightweight breezes. But can it amount to something as thishttp://www.homedics.com/products/checkout/cart/...
which uses magento

Magento has full blown features (coupons, cross promos to say the least ) I would assume you guys are seeding out the valueble function to adapt into a new core structure???

FRZ I have a concept Idea requiring AJAX I would love your commentary on regarding customer interaction when browsing products.http://www.oscardelarenta.com/?folderId=/shoponline/...

Thanks
Josh
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
shermsinc - i'm franz, you can learn more about who any one is by rolling over their avatar.

the magento integration goes - but i gotta tell ya, I'm far from in love with it. So far I find magento to be huge and slow. You can throw powerful in there, but there's a certain elegance thats missing which bothers me. I'm also not really on board with what I believe their strategy to be from a licensing prospective in the future.

i've looked at presta and opencart - ya know, the reality is the actual shopping cart part is not that hard (done in fact, look at this site) - it's the inventory management, coupons, placement of products throughout the site, cross referencing, etc etc etc.. i love the idea of integrating with another app when it makes sense (like picnik in our new 5.3 version).. but when its something with so many touch points as ecommerce, i'm starting to feel like we should just take what we were gonna release as "concrete5 lite cart" and really make it powerful enough to handle 80% of the ecommerce problems with a real pricetag attached...

anyrate - more thoughts on this in a few, got some 5.3 stuff to worry about right now.
jincmd replied on at Permalink Reply
jincmd
Thanks for the speedy reply. I trust your judgment, with that said I don't think I will look into Magento any further, yet I wish luck to overcome that beast. For me it's to rough I didn't like it from the moment I laid eyes on their navigational menu. But always dreamed the function was there to decode for surgery.

All in all I have decided on goin with PRESTO along with C5. I have c5 installed athttp://concrete.risehere.com/index.php/dashboard/install...
I hope to in the end have 1 core structure combined with c5, presto, and other code filled with feature rich functionality... into 1 core structure.
I'm haven't messedso much with the c5 because I don't know where to begin. The blocks seem convenient for any BLOG/content based site... Also what is picnic 5.3? It would be a big help if you would speak to my coder, and perhaps tell him what we can do that would jumpstart c5 for a ecommerce direction. All in all for starters....
I'm early in the game but intend on moving quick with hopefully some simplicity.

I want to become a competitor of homeannex.com http://www.americanhomeplus.com http://www.homeclick.com

So until now Magento seemed to must be the only way "IN"

Although with help from you and presto, my coder can hopefully create that 1 stop solution.
jincmd replied on at Permalink Reply
jincmd
any thoughts onhttp://www.shopalacart.com/ ?

came across this just now onhttp://www.hulkdshop.com , which I came across here on the forum
ScottC replied on at Permalink Reply
ScottC
all are similar, all should work well with concrete5.
jincmd replied on at Permalink Reply
jincmd
Because theres no options to host the solution on your own box. It looks great though. Scott, and thoughts on shopalacart ? I was really impressed until today trying to give each of there numbers a rin,g, and getting retarted messages when they claim their hours of operation are 10am-6pm, their tolld fee goes to amailbox that doesn't exist... But take a look at their demos! But its just a tease.... If you login to their admin backend, you'll see they have it formatted real nicely. If only c5 could still exist, inside the cart ssytem... wooweee
ScottC replied on at Permalink Reply
ScottC
i agree with everything djn said below/above.

There are some nice solutions out there depending on what you want to do. Selling photos or something like that is perfect for foxycart or e-junkie.. but you don't manage downloadables from your site, you have to go to their site to do so.

Xsilva lightspeed has a web product that ties in with a physical cash register setup, very cool.

All kinds of things out there, just most cost money. You get what you pay for, and with pci compliance things it isn't something I would skimp on :)
jincmd replied on at Permalink Reply
jincmd
pci compliants? thanks for the thoughts i'm gonna take a look at Xsilva lightspeed now.
beeman89045 replied on at Permalink Reply
shopalacart is a bit too expensive at $95/month. They claim to have a fully licensed price, but I think if an annual lease is $995, then a permanent license will be higher (~$1500+ wouldn't surprise me).

And there are many very good commercials carts under $500 out there.

Just my 2c.
virgiltu replied on at Permalink Reply
virgiltu
So is the E commerce available for download or do i have to make my own? I am working on a music store. But im still lost on making a block that works over multiple pages. So far i dont see a block that will do that. I only see widgets blocks. any help?
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
short answer, not yet..

Longer answer - would you pay for it?

http://www.concrete5.org/community/forums/chat/a_solution_to_the_ec...
virgiltu replied on at Permalink Reply
virgiltu
i guess i see your point. but if i want a full ecommerce i can find them all over.
plus 255$ is way to much. but for somebody that cant code i guess is worth it. im about to finish my music store block like amazon. i will post it here for free. Open source is open source. :)
jgarcia replied on at Permalink Reply
jgarcia
i just want to throw this out there really quick, because i feel like there's been some conversation on the forums lately that makes it sound like people are expecting everything that everything related to c5 should be 100% free all of the time.

now i know i made my comments earlier about my discontent over the fact that there is no decent (IMO) free e-commerce system out there. i'm not really complaining, nor am i saying that those who are charging for good e-commerce platforms are jerks because they do - i'm only saying that it would be nice to see a really good free e-commerce platform...maybe it's just wishful thinking.

but here's the deal - to me, C5 alone is worth a pretty penny, and here we are, getting it for free. if the C5 team wants to extend it a little bit and charge for that, they should not be given a hard time for doing so! hundreds (probably thousands) of hours have been put into the C5 core, and we get the benefit of that at no cost. just be grateful, and don't gripe about the fact that they want to make a little extra dough from offering some additional features.
bryanlewis replied on at Permalink Reply
bryanlewis
I agree... C5 is great and pretty soon 5.3 will have all the bugs worked out. So to charge a bit for something that is a great/quick solution for something I can't build myself. its worth is... I'd pay for it!

drupal sucks
beeman89045 replied on at Permalink Reply
Just have to say, love the tagline.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
yeah! what he said..

ps: easily thousands, possibly tens of thousands.. 7 years of active development by anywhere from half a dozen to a dozen folks.. hard to even track.
virgiltu replied on at Permalink Reply
virgiltu
hands down c5 is the best cms out there.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
be sure to vote and put your comments where they'll count on this matter:
http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/want_ecommerce__prove_it_...
bradlyco replied on at Permalink Reply
I just stumbled onto c5 and I was disappointed there was not an e commerce set-up. This is one incredible (free or otherwise) cms, and I would gladly pay for a shopping cart that fit it.

Open source is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and c5 looks like the butter. If you are going to use it to make a living, then you should have no problem with the people who provide it making a living.

That's my two cents, now please hurry up with an e commerce solution for your two cents. Thanks.
frz replied on at Permalink Reply
frz
abovecreative replied on at Permalink Reply
abovecreative
Recently been looking at a number of different ecommerce solutions including magento, open cart, prestashop etc and stumbled upon CS-Cart. The admin area is something else, by far the most intuitive I have come across and it looks great. Unfortunately it isn't free, costs $265 but for what you get I think its pretty reasonable. Have a look at the demo admin area, if you need any inspiration on how the backend should work then I think this is a great example.
SteveJohn replied on at Permalink Reply
done