Version 8 Discussion

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Hello All,
We can continue the v8 discussions here

jessicadunbar
View Replies:
ramonleenders replied on at Permalink Reply
ramonleenders
Will the video be uploaded somewhere? I missed a little part and would love to watch it back.
mesuva replied on at Permalink Reply
mesuva
I'm keen on this too, I'm pretty sure I would have been asleep at the time of the stream!
MrKDilkington replied on at Permalink Reply
MrKDilkington
I would also enjoy watching the presentation.
hereNT replied on at Permalink Reply
hereNT
Plus four.
mesuva replied on at Permalink Reply
mesuva
Unfortunately I don't think the video recorded correctly, so there won't be one published.
We'll just have to be on the lookout for other updates.
tallacman replied on at Permalink Reply
tallacman
I really like the new install interface.
SpatialAnomaly replied on at Permalink Reply
SpatialAnomaly
Has the core team ever considered making a "private" marketplace?

Let me explain... the public facing marketplace serves its purpose wonderfully however on just about every project I've done, I've created custom packages that I really have no intention of ever selling on the marketplace either because they are too specialized or because I really don't want the hassle of supporting a large network of users, my own clients keep me hopping enough as it is and while a few extra bucks from the marketplace might be nice, it's not realistic at all to think I could support it, it's just not work I would want or handle.

Having said that, I love the convenience of a one-click update for packages that do come from the marketplace. Right now my workflow is kind of clumsy. I utilize Git/BitBucket to keep myself coordinated with versions but when I push an update out for a package I'm using potentially for 30+ clients, I have to physically put that package into those installs of concrete manually.

I would love to be able to "commit"/upload/whatever to concrete5 as a "private" package (haha mind=gutter) and have it work the same way as when a package is updated in the marketplace. I realize there's a cost for data storage so maybe it doesn't happen on Concrete5 plus I know you guys take a cut of sales so nothing in it for you. Maybe there's a way to set up a "also look in this custom directory for new package updates" and it just points to my server somewhere. I'll be honest I have no idea how that update process really works now so I'm being pretty general.

I know I'm not the only "agency" person here with numerous clients, I'm sure everyone has their method of madness for pushing updates but I sure wish I could tap into that automated process or customize it without necessarily selling on the marketplace.

Thanks
ramonleenders replied on at Permalink Reply
ramonleenders
I need something like this too (more or less). Sometimes you have a package that's just not marketplace ready yet (docs missing, just not fully ready to sell to others, but ready enough for your clients). At that point you'd like to have it assigned to the site, but you can't submit it to the open marketplace. So some sort of "private" part would be awesome for that. Maybe you can click a button at one point saying "Push to public marketplace" and it will arrive at the PRB (but remain in private still, for the active users to be still able to update the product).
Gondwana replied on at Permalink Reply
Gondwana
Excellent idea. Google has implemented similar capability via alpha and beta test groups for Android app developers (although the groups can be used for more than just testing).
JohntheFish replied on at Permalink Reply
JohntheFish
There is a 5.6 package on github called "Upload and Install Packages". Its there because it would not be suitable for the marketplace.

https://github.com/miguelgilmartinez/upload-and-install-packages-in-...

I make use of it for my own development and for customer sites all the time. Its a good starting point for coding personal support systems.

I too missed the v8 webcast and would like to watch the recording when it is available and I have a few minutes to spare.
wildapple replied on at Permalink Reply
wildapple
+1 This feature. It would be very useful if concrete5 provided a centralized way for developers to push updates to packages that were not for sale in the marketplace. This could potentially be a new profit area for concrete5 as well. Attempting to maintain custom packages across many websites on multiple servers is very time consuming. Who else would be willing to pay a monthly fee for this level of automation/centralization...?
siton replied on at Permalink Reply
siton
You find the "Version 8.0.0 Preview" only in "download" label and after a lot of scrolling. Only by mistake i find this release link.

I thinks this is very important issue so its better to put version 8 (even if this is beta) in "remarkable" spot in concrete5 site.

Example of boostrap 4 (very remarkable on top of the site):
"Aww yeah, Bootstrap 4 is coming!"
http://getbootstrap.com/
jessicadunbar replied on at Permalink Reply
jessicadunbar
Great idea! With the banner.

We're working on a new landing page. I hope to have it ready this week along with other marketing materials. If anyone wants to assist with marketing content, tweets, or creative ideads ect... Please contact me. I will be so greatful.

Sadly, I think we forgot to record the video. I didn't know that was possible with YouTube.
jessicadunbar replied on at Permalink Reply
jessicadunbar
Great idea! With the banner.

We're working on a new landing page. I hope to have it ready this week along with other marketing materials. If anyone wants to assist with marketing content, tweets, or creative ideads ect... Please contact me. I will be so greatful.

Sadly, I think we forgot to record the video. I didn't know that was possible with YouTube.
MrKDilkington replied on at Permalink Reply
MrKDilkington
@jessicadunbar

For those who were unable to see the video, is it possible to list the video highlights?
ramonleenders replied on at Permalink Reply
ramonleenders
+ 1
WillemAnchor replied on at Permalink Reply
WillemAnchor
+1
arlenesey replied on at Permalink Reply
arlenesey
+1 - if recording didn't work then maybe talking points?
I signed up but couldn't attend. Would really appreciate an outline of topics covered.
Mnkras replied on at Permalink Reply
Mnkras
Just a heads up, for anyone that wants to try v8, I have nightly builds available:

http://c5.krasnow.me/

Just look for the current days date.

Mike
Steevb replied on at Permalink Reply
Steevb
Liking 8 so far.

Couple of tweaks needed.
Dashboard menu divider margin pushing line out and giving a horizontal scroll bar. In app.css margin-left:22px;margin-right:-30px. Changing to margin-left:2px;margin-right:2px works for me.

dashboard/elements/footer.php needs closing div removing line 7.

dashboard/dialog.php needs div wrap removing lines 5 and 9.

concrete/elements/menu.php last closing div line 57 needs removing.

blocks/page_title/view missing forward slash ”</$formatting>";
mesuva replied on at Permalink Reply 2 Attachments
mesuva
The main question I have about v8 from a quick test is in regards to the broader design changes to form interfaces.

Inputs don't seem to be visible until you roll over them. Is this a bootstrap thing or a design decision?

Without basic borders around form inputs, although I find it very clean looking, I'm finding there isn't enough to differentiate between what is a label and what is an input. On something like the attributes panel, there's really nothing there to indicate that the attributes are actually editable - it just looks like a list of information.

There's also a larger amount of vertical space between form elements, which seems to me makes forms much longer than they need to be.

Compare the two screenshots I've attached, the first is how the styling initially appears, and the second is after I've tweaked the spacing and added a simple input border.

I know that this is all WIP, I'm really just curious as to how 'final' this new look is.
Gondwana replied on at Permalink Reply
Gondwana
I strongly agree about the invisible text boxes for form inputs. One has to play hunt-and-click with the mouse to find out if you can/should enter anything, and where.
siton replied on at Permalink Reply
siton
I also think the form with the current design its little problematic.

Maybe this could be a "half measure" solution with some transitions
http://materializecss.com/forms.html...

In materializecss before the user enter data its very clear where you need to put data (and the "line" design instead of box label look similar to the c8 new design). Also the transitions looks cool :)
Parasek replied on at Permalink Reply
Parasek
1. I am very worried about usability and user experience when seeing borderless inputs.

2. Dashboard/backend headings without background seems to much illegible for my taste (especially when there is another text one layer below).

3. File manager definitely lacks double dot folder (..), which sends you one folder up (like in FTP clients). Breadcrumbs below "File Manager" is not enough.

4. Why do you need to double click folder to open it? It feels kinda strange to me to double click on internet.
mhawke replied on at Permalink Reply
mhawke
I completely agree with others who are concerned with borderless form inputs. IMHO, it's a design trend that will likely end soon so why copy bad design just to be trendy?

Also, is there a reason why the left mouse button activates most (all?) of the concrete5 sub-menus but suddenly, the new File Manager requires the right mouse button for it's sub-menus? At first blush, the reason appears to be the missing check-boxes that used to be used to select individual files. Now, the left mouse is used to highlight files. This seems like a very significant inconsistency in the user experience just to get rid of some check-boxes. Why are we making users guess how things work?

Also, I can use SHIFT+Left Click to choose a range of files however I can't use CTRL+Left Click to choose multiple files that are non-contiguous.
Gondwana replied on at Permalink Reply
Gondwana
Re the file manager: I agree! The inconsistency is poor, and the inability to select discontiguous entries is a regression.
MrKDilkington replied on at Permalink Reply 2 Attachments
MrKDilkington
I also agree that the form element styling makes it challenging to find where inputs are. With experienced concrete5 developers and users reporting that they are having issues with it, it leads me to think average users are going to face a significant challenge.

From Franz and Andrew's descriptions, the design goal was to create fieldless forms. To help better understand how they might enhance concrete5, I did some looking for examples of this design style.

Here are some examples that I found:
https://dribbble.com/shots/2371603-Form-Flow...
https://dribbble.com/shots/1819287-Registration-Form...
https://dribbble.com/shots/2236053-Day-073-Account-Settings...
https://dribbble.com/shots/1609734-RushTax-Float-Form...
https://dribbble.com/shots/1312130-My-Application...
https://dribbble.com/shots/1797788-Forms...

Based on these examples, I understand why fieldless forms are attractive from a design perspective. They look fresh, new, and different than most websites. One issue with these designs is limiting readable color contrast to be more aesthetically pleasing - using many shades of light grey text on grey/white backgrounds. Making reading text a challenge depending on the display and not accessible.

Excluding the issue of color contrast, the fieldless forms that are the easiest to use have a few things in common, "containing" borders on all sides and/or the heavy use of placeholders. With each input area enclosed in a bordered square with a label, making it like a paper based form.

Of the above examples, I found these to have the best combination of design aesthetics and usability:
https://dribbble.com/shots/1819287-Registration-Form...
https://dribbble.com/shots/1609734-RushTax-Float-Form...
https://dribbble.com/shots/1312130-My-Application...
https://dribbble.com/shots/1797788-Forms...

The problem I see with trying to implement this fieldless form style is making it work with existing CSS classes and HTML markup. To make it look aesthetically pleasing while being user friendly would likely require more than just changing the Bootstrap styles and involve creating a custom CSS framework and accompanying markup. I do like the fieldless forms though and am open to exploring what it would take to make them successful.

An alternative to making significant changes to classes and markup is to take the current fieldless form design in version 8 and create a happy medium. Keep the new design style and make slight changes that still allow it to work with the existing classes.

I have attached two screenshots. One is the current Image Slider block form and the second is an example happy medium version of the form. The goal was to preserve the spirit of the new design, while making it more approachable for end users.
mesuva replied on at Permalink Reply
mesuva
+1 to this very strongly.

I'm certainly happy to see a refreshed design, I really like the new blue colours, making it less bootstrap and more 'concrete5'. But I think going any further than this, at least at this point in time, is going to be way too risky and potentially damaging to the overall user experience.

The 'happy medium' version attached has obvious spots where it is accepting user input, it's got enough space between inputs (but it's not too large) and there isn't confusion between what is a selected option and what is a disabled input.

After a lot of hard work 5.7 has become very stable and refined, and I've never seen a single complaint suggesting that the ways forms are currently presenting needs fixing. Now we need stability and predictability with the platform so we can all help to document and sing its praises.

I love seeing new stuff in concrete5, but I'm struggling to keep up.
MrKDilkington replied on at Permalink Reply
MrKDilkington
I posted a reply to GitHub regarding the issues with the version 8 form designs.
https://github.com/concrete5/concrete5/issues/3798#issuecomment-2202...

In the reply, I included screenshots and explanations of changes intended to serve the design needs of Portland Labs and usability concerns of the community.
siton replied on at Permalink Reply
siton
IMPORTANT!! File Manager issue: Sets out Folders IN ?

I really hate the "sets" idea for managing pictures. In my opinion this was bad UI - its really hard to delete/edit/add" files like this and to see "the files in set X" (The sets are more like "tags" and not for categorization hierarchy)

With Folders its now more Windows or WIX style (very easy and intuitive even for the most ametur user) to mange files (The best feature for me in C8)

Now for my main Q : This folders will be with handles and option to get the file object inside folder "X" and do forEach?

Of course i can cheat: Create folder "paris" and make all the files in this folder set "paris"
MrKDilkington replied on at Permalink Reply
MrKDilkington
@siton

Folders and file sets serve different needs.

Unless I am mistaken, files can only be in one folder at a time. File sets allow you to include a file in multiple sets at a time.

An example would be a slideshow that uses a group of 10 pictures and a gallery that includes a group of 50 pictures. There could be images that are in both groups. With folders only, you couldn't share those images between groups, requiring you to choose between one group or the other.

I agree that it would be useful to remove files from a file set when viewing the file set.
siton replied on at Permalink Reply
siton
I dont want to work with sets anymore (again i dont like this concept) . Also its really rare to use the same picture in two categories in site

I hope in the future C5 "kill" the sets idea to manage files. Sets it more for #tags"

I ask: In the API their is some way to "Print all folder items"
I can do something like this?....I
Step 1: create folder named "paris"
Step 2:
ForEach item inside paris-folder:
$paris = getFolderByHandle ("paris_folder")
//some loop
foreach $paris folder item --some code to -> get image (some-Attribute)


I believe you will see that more and more users will want to work with folders:
- Paris
- London
- NY

Instead of create 3 sets (paris, London, NY) and work really hard to add/remove/replace files. And do a lot of clicks to look at "paris" images (In folder i only need one click).

Mabye in "Paris" i will add 2 sets (=Tag) #paris-at-night, #Eiffel-tower. For this task sets are perfect (not for structure).
Parasek replied on at Permalink Reply
Parasek
I agree, working with filesets was never a pleasant experience for me (especially when you have 50+ galleries to add or something like that).
I/my clients were rarely adding images to more than one set.

I hope new File Manager comes with appropriate API.
For example, it would be nice to have functions like that added to Filelist class:

$list = new FileList;
$list->filterByFileManagerFolder('Folder name');
$list->filterByFileManagerPathToFolder('Galleries/Products/First gallery');

Functions to list folders/subfolders would also be needed.

It would be also nice to have an ability to select folder in composer/attribute field (like File attribute, but in this case you would be able to select folders only).
A3020 replied on at Permalink Reply
A3020
Trying to make packages compatible with both 5.7 and 8, is gonna look like this, I suppose? Or is there going to be a third marketplace? :)

if (version_compare(Config::get('concrete.version'), '8', '>')) {
    $ui = $app->make('\Concrete\Core\User\UserInfoFactory')->getByID($u->getUserID())
} else {
    $ui = UserInfo::getByID($u->getUserID());
}
A3020 replied on at Permalink Reply
A3020
No, UserInfoFactory has been renamed to UserInfoRepository in v8. So if you were a good developer in C5757 and you had updated your code, it *will* break in v8.
farion replied on at Permalink Reply
farion
Folders for file management are awesome. This will make Concrete5 much more competitive.

But I strongly agree with the invisible input fields. Most of our clients won't get it and will be lost in the UI. Same for the transparent window header. Design might be a taste, but usability is not. So please rethink that decision.

But beneath that I'm impressed. V8 is great.

Best,
Farion
daenu replied on at Permalink Reply
daenu
Concern about packages:

I just tested one of my packages on v8. it installs some user attributes in a set. Working fine in v5.7 but it seems completely different in v8.

- Do I have to write 2 versions of my package? 1 for 5.7 and one for v8?
- Do I have to use some conditional to do things if it's v8? Doesn't sound like good coding style to me...

I thought that v8 is going to be (mostly) backwards compatible.... Doesn't seem to be the case really
cryophallion replied on at Permalink Reply
Am I really the first one to ask about Express? Wow. I would think there would be a ton more questions, especially after the demo.

Sadly, since I can't go back and watch, and since one of my kids decided daddy needed to be distracted right about when I missed some important things:

They say that express objects are themselves just attributes. In this case:

1. I ASSUME but would like confirmed: these objects can have attributes added to them (like a product having an image, price, etc)? I would think this would be obvious, but I thought I should ask.

2. Will they be their own kinda attribute category (as file, collection, and user are now)?

3. These feel like the topics concept matured. Will express be replacing topics?

4. I know in the video you showed how they could be filtered and searched for (which is really important). I assume there will need to be a express object block type some people will need to use to show the attributes of the attribute?

5. How flexible will the search be? I would hope you can do any kind of formatting for the results, including multiple images or somesuch. Again, I ASSUME this is true, but with them also being attributes, I want to ensure that what I am about to tell a customer about why his site being converted from an old in house cms to a new C5 site should really wait, because then I can have different products showing up on different page types with different templates with different search display options....

Thanks again for the webcast, I hope you can at least do some mini casts on express, the new forms stuff, etc!
pilipala replied on at Permalink Reply
pilipala
Hi,

I am curious how this will work as well. Do we make different versions for concrete5 8, and will there be a version 8 marketplace?

I have just tested one of our 5.7 themes and received an error in regards to the way that we add the theme as a set.

Undefined class constant 'ASET_ALLOW_SINGLE'

In 5.7, this works in the controller.php

private function installPageAttributes(&$pkg) {
    $akCatSet = AttributeSet::getByHandle('my_set');
    if(!is_object($akCatSet)){
      $akCat = AttributeKeyCategory::getByHandle('collection');
      $akCat->setAllowAttributeSets(AttributeKeyCategory::ASET_ALLOW_SINGLE);
      $akCatSet = $akCat->addSet('my_set', t('My Set'),$pkg);
    }

Should this work in v 8, or do we need to add a set in a different way?

Thanks,

Jennifer
Steevb replied on at Permalink Reply
Steevb
R u using the 'nightly' build or official download?
pilipala replied on at Permalink Reply
pilipala
I just used the official download, but now looking at the download section again I have spotted a note to report v8 issues here:

https://github.com/concrete5/concrete5/issues...

And I can see someone else has already mentioned this issue on there

https://github.com/concrete5/concrete5/issues/3868...
cryophallion replied on at Permalink Reply
Where on earth is there a nightly build? I just went to github thinking, ok, fine, I want to test express and see if it will work for me, and the last commit is 3 months ago! So, clearly, stuff has not been pushed or merged (likely because it breaks things, or are all on personal branches). But still, REALLY hard to test and file bugs when there are no updates to the code!

So, basically, while we had a great video (which sadly too many people missed, but I'll forgive that, mistakes happen, and I give them a lot of credit for trying), I was told "Hey, cryo, keep on top of the dev so you can make sure the package stuff you need is in there". Except.. this is when I can't keep on top of dev. Look, I get that the updates likely break things. And I get things change and morph so specs take too long to write and are outdated. But having no responses here, and having no access for us to test it, to be honest, kinda sucks.
What can I do to help? I don't want to just complain, I want to resolve this. I've offered to just talk to a core member and do all the writing for people, and keep it updated, on my own time, but right now, while I know the core team is juggling a lot, after the issues with 5.7 and how long it took documentation to get resolved for that, we really need to be more proactive, and I'd love to help if I can.
Steevb replied on at Permalink Reply
Steevb
Nightly build is here, as mentioned above. The new one is newer than the official download at the moment: http://c5.krasnow.me/
mesuva replied on at Permalink Reply
mesuva
Where are you looking where the last commit was 3 months ago?

The last commit tohttps://github.com/concrete5/concrete5... was yesterday:
https://github.com/concrete5/concrete5/commits/develop...

The github version requires a trigger of composer, but besides that I'm pretty sure that's up to date.
cryophallion replied on at Permalink Reply 1 Attachment
Right in the feature branch for v8. See attached.
maar replied on at Permalink Reply
maar
You are not looking at the "develop" branch!!
ob7dev replied on at Permalink Reply
ob7dev
Where should we report errors?
jessicadunbar replied on at Permalink Reply
jessicadunbar
Hi,
GREAT question.
Found a Bug?

If you think you've come across a bug you can:

Search for a similar or existing issue on githubhttps://github.com/concrete5/concrete5/issues...
Report a new issue if you're sure it doesn't already exist OR update the existing issue.
Add detailed instructions on how to reproduce the bug. This could be in the form of test cases or a simple walk through.
Having good instruction how reproduce a bug the more likely it will be fixed.
pilipala replied on at Permalink Reply
pilipala
Hi Jess,

Will there be any more documentation for theme / add on developers to assist them in getting their themes and addons ready for 5.8? I can see that we should report bugs on Github when testing addons, but it is hard to know which errors are resulting from "bugs" and which are resulting from doing something differently in 5.8. We have 4 themes in 5.7 and have found issues when installing sample content in v 5.8.

Thanks,

Jennifer
ob7dev replied on at Permalink Reply
ob7dev
Whats the ETA for first release of 5.8 stable?
severoon replied on at Permalink Reply
+1 to this question, can anyone comment?

I'm on the verge of upgrading to 5.7.5.8 and I'm wondering if I'm better off just waiting for 5.8. I don't need an exact release date, but it would be nice to know if it's 2 weeks, 2 months, or more like EOY.
ob7dev replied on at Permalink Reply
ob7dev
If you're already using 5.7, upgrading to the newest version should be fine. That being said, always make a full backup of your files and database just in case.
ntisithoj replied on at Permalink Reply
ntisithoj
I notice that many of my v7 themes wont install due to teh same error or

"Concrete\Core\File\Image\Thumbnail\Type\Type::setName()"

... Has this been changed in v8, or is it just missing in the v8b5 version is am testing?
byvictoria replied on at Permalink Reply
byvictoria
Hi there,
I can't install any of my V7 themes due to error
"Concrete\Core\File\Image\Thumbnail\Type\Type::setName()"
Is this still in process?
Thank you,
V.
amrod replied on at Permalink Reply
amrod
I didnt like the "welcome back" screen.
Missing C5.6 dashboard.
ob7dev replied on at Permalink Reply
ob7dev
The welcome screen is cool because we can customize it just like it was a page on our site. And its useful beyond the c5.7 welcome back popup. Plus, getting the welcome back popup at random times you log in was annoying (c5.7), as it always took forever to load.
Responsive replied on at Permalink Reply
Responsive
When creating an express list we have the option to LINK TO DETAIL PAGE which we can choose from the sitemap eg Blog page

The results for each submission from the form in the list gives a link like index.php/blog/view_express_entity/1 and index.php/blog/view_express_entity/2 etc . Are we supposed to place new pages for these links or be able to change the link to go to form results view.
GunterSchmitt replied on at Permalink Reply
GunterSchmitt
Hi all,

the express objects is a grat feature, but I miss two things with the express objects.

1. A auto increment field. This feld is needed to make independ data.
2. A field you can choose a data from a selected object with an field (e.g. Name in the contact form) and then it's conected via the auto increment field (1:n).

Will this be implemented i the future or can I define my own fields?

Thanks in advanced

Gunter
TiPritam replied on at Permalink Reply
Hello All,
I have added a form in one of my version 8.0.3 sites but the interface or look is not good. I have attached a screen shot. How I can modify the design? Where to put the customized CSS?
ramonleenders replied on at Permalink Reply
ramonleenders
You forgot the attachment. P.s. You can make a separate thread for this issue!
TiPritam replied on at Permalink Reply 1 Attachment
Sorry for the attachment. Here it is now. Also opened a new thread but in my previous questions, I haven't got any response. That's I have also posted here.
quarterloop replied on at Permalink Reply
Hello Community,

is it possible to add a trailing slash at the end of an URL. I have tried it with instructions in the htaccess. However this leads to many redirects and does not work. Does anyone of you have an idea? I am looking forward to your feedback.

Best regards Frank
w2f replied on at Permalink Reply
w2f
so, i'm not getting a reply from the other Discussion area....
i switched from v5.6 to a new rebuild of my site on v8.

Maybe I'm just lost, but I can not find where my "deactivated" user went to !!
So I went in to Members/Advanced/Custom Results, and then selected by "status" and got an unexpected error occurred message. I got the same message each time I tried fresh to access the Members block, even after clearing the cache!!! I had to log out and then back in to get back to the members page. So, I have a few members deactivated until we can get some things worked out, but I have no way of reactivating them if i cant find the "deactivated" list.

AND, I also can not find the option to download members (groups) to a CVS.

I'm getting a bit frustrated with v8.... can i find some help for this issue here? thanks community.
weyboat replied on at Permalink Reply
weyboat
To find inactive users..
From the Search Users page click advanced, next click 'keywords' and choose 'activated', you will then get the option to search for active users or inactive users..
w2f replied on at Permalink Reply
w2f
thank you.