Deleted page by mistake

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Hi Folks
Been working too much today, and at 2:00 AM shit happens. I accidently deteled one page with important content on it. Have never done this before, so I never thought about a trash. Now I'm looking for it, or a way to recover the page. Any idea ?
Thanks !

witwag
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witwag replied on at Permalink Reply
witwag
anyone ?
Please !
:)
tbcrowe replied on at Permalink Reply
tbcrowe
Unless you have a backup, your page is gone.
witwag replied on at Permalink Reply
witwag
Thanks Todd

I think this is a major flaw. It's not rare that users inadvertently delete a page, even if there is a pop-up asking "are you sure Y/N ?" because as most GUI specialists know, users don't read pop-up warnings, even with a death sign.

The normal process should be that a deleted page goes into the trashcan, then user can empty the trashcan.

Major flaw, really.
aeroclown replied on at Permalink Reply
aeroclown
I am not sure I would call it a flaw. So much as just a missing feature. Site administration is an important task and in reality it should not be performed by someone who isn't going to read those pop-ups. Especially a site admin who doesn't read pop-ups. (yes mistakes happen)

It could be put in place, but after all there is a site back component that you can use to backup your database and restore it from the dashboard that seems to work ok.

Having a trash bin is probably has its pitfalls, because then we would have to store those in the database or somewhere, which means a larger database, with longer access and query times. This might be extend-able though, since there is already page versions. Maybe make a feature request. Though in the interim you should probably grab the free database backup module. It will give you some safety to restore your site if you make a bobo in the middle of the morning without your first cup of coffee.

I don't know of any cms at present that will store a page after deletion though so it could be an interesting and unique feature.
witwag replied on at Permalink Reply
witwag
>I don't know of any cms at present that will store a page after deletion though so it could be an interesting and unique feature

Well there is MODx, for one. You delete a page, it appears in red with strikethrough. Then there is a trashcan icon, wich asks "this will permanently delete etc" and the pages are gone. Two steps required. Believe me, this is a very nice feature when my clients are working in admin mode for some reason. Even at mid-day with enough coffee.
aeroclown replied on at Permalink Reply
aeroclown
I don't doubt its value as a feature. You can however already backup your entire site from within the dashboard. You can already restore your entire site from a backup in the dashboard. There is plenty of safety in that if you use it appropriately.

It isn't a flaw, it is just a missing feature. Besides, if you didn't read the first pop-up what leads you to believe the second one would have stopped you. ;)
witwag replied on at Permalink Reply
witwag
You are thinking from a coder perspective.

Think from a user one. Cron jobs or DB backups are not for them. Users don't want to mess with code or a server's guts. Users want simplicity.
When I was a student, we had lectures about usability. One of the best what the one when they said "your interface has to be idiot proof". Because if there is a way to mess with the system, the idiot will find it.

Not having a trash makes C5 not idiot proof. Imagine someone with low-level privileges, but who is trusted enough to be granted delete privilege. Imagine they are tired, thinking of something else, in love. Imagine they delete a page with important content that have just been approved by the CEO.

That's quite possible. In fact it's so possible that it happens everyday. Even to non-idiots.

Besides, from a user point of view, the trashcan in an archetype. Every average Joe has one on their computer.

Not a feature. A major flaw.
aeroclown replied on at Permalink Reply
aeroclown
Deleting a page is not a low level privilege. It is a feature, windows and dos didn't come with a trash can. It is a feature, one that Microsoft marketed out the wazoo to make it what it is today.

There is absolutely no way to idiot proof something. It doesn't matter how well you hide something, it doesn't matter how obvious you make it. If someone is interested in finding a way to break it, they will. you can only attempt to make it idiot proof. In scenarios in which there are multiple users managing content a System Administrator should always have a copy to restore the site. You are not seeing what I am saying. You are stuck on the user being able to perform high level actions. Low-level actions are read only not edit and delete. If you made a mistake, all you should have to do is ask for some help.

Yes a trash can could remove that requirement, but it isn't a flaw. Again, I don't dispute the value of this feature. I just don't think it is a flaw in that it is missing. We will have to agree to disagree here. No, I am not missing your perspective and no I am not missing the customer perspective. I just disagree with if this is a flaw and a feature. Which is why I suggested you put something into the feature request section.
witwag replied on at Permalink Reply
witwag
Well, I agree that we disagree then :) Back in 1984 the first mac had a trashcan. The MIT had one. DOS had not, but it was not exactly the best UI around, either.

Anyway.. Thanks for your point of view.
witwag replied on at Permalink Reply
witwag
oh, and about MODx deleting a page is not exactly a sequence of pop-up.
1- right click on doc. Select Delete. Get pop-Up "are you sure, page will be completely deleted" Y/N
2- doc appears in red with strikethrough. That's a clear visual indication.
3- click on Trash icon (tool tip : purge deleted resources) Get popup "This will permanently remove ALL deleted Resources? Proceed?" Y/N

So basically you get one action, a clear feedback, and then a second action to confirm your choice.

In C5 you get one action, without feedback

Check it out :

http://demo.opensourcecms.com/modx/manager/...

Username: admin
Password: demo123
Quaro replied on at Permalink Reply
I think some kind of solution would be valuable, as long as it's conceptually simple. Clients love page versions because it makes them feel 'safe' -- no matter how much they screw things up, they can always go back. Unfortunately they don't have that cushion with deleting. Yeah we can do some advanced permissions stuff to force a kind of double check but sometimes even I just get confused and delete the wrong thing.
witwag replied on at Permalink Reply
witwag
Quaro, you are right IMHO. Versioning is really great. My customers love this safety. Not being able to undelete is the exact opposite.

A deleted page should be kept somewhere, together with all previous versions; and only deleted with a specific action as shown above.
bychance replied on at Permalink Reply
bychance
It just happened to me......
I'm a real newbie :/
I was (trying to) delete a child-page and some how deleted the parent page.

I did back up my data base. Will restoring the data base restore the site up to the point of back up?
bychance replied on at Permalink Reply
bychance
Follow up:

I happen to run across a database back up app that was free. So I installed it and performed a database back up. I did this 1 hour before I mistakenly deleted the parent page. I recovered 95% of my work!!

Thank God for the coffee and cig break after the database back up :p

Anyone that runs across this, backing up the database with the free utility is a savor!
kstrange replied on at Permalink Reply
kstrange
I hear you. Here's the main issue. You can go back to a previous version of a page - if the page still exists - which gives the user - All users - the sense that recovery is always possible.

it's 10:15 - I created 16 pages of unique, SEO'd content today - 8 hours straight.

I was moving folders around, deleted a folder (which contained 16 Documents) and poof a whole day gone. Concrete5 just went from an A+ to a C in my book. I removed a folder, not a document. No where did it warn me that all the documents would be trashed as well.

If you ask me, this makes my entire excellent experience with a very good product - a very terrible one in a matter of seconds....

Hopefully they will straighten this out. It's a HUGE weakness.
hbartlett replied on at Permalink Reply
hbartlett
I've done this. Accidentally deleting a page I mean, by deleting the folder that contained it. And yes, my immediate thought was 'wait, it saves previous versions, so maybe it's available somewhere'... but no. So yes I too think a Recycle bin or something similar would be a great addition, and I don't think it would be a big deal to implement - basically you're just un-publishing the page, so it's really just about semantics and interface changes.
mario replied on at Permalink Reply
mario
Yes, database backups are critical with the current version. But my vote is for a "trashcan" where documents can be either A) rolled back to where they were, or at B) least manually put back. I've definitely run across this situation with clients; particularly with the coreCommerce plug-in. It's not really great to have to tell them "don't cross the beams (Ghostbusters reference). They'll do it anyway.

Workaround:

Create an AdminManager group that has all the powers of Admin without Delete. When they want to "Delete something" they instead move it into a hidden To Be Deleted page/folder and change the Permissions to hide it from Nav,Page List, Sitemap.xml, etc.

Periodically, someone who knows how to do a DB backup and can delete pages goes in and deletes them (but only after backing up the db).
Quaro replied on at Permalink Reply
Yes, absolutely. Users feel like they can't 'break' the site because they can go back to a previous version of any page, but they totally can with one mistaken delete. It is so much better if the users don't have this fear when doing edits.

mario's workaround where users 'delete' by moving the page to a special folder seems worth a shot for now.
liminal replied on at Permalink Reply
I just had a client call after doing this, yep the page was gone but luckily Google, Yahoo and (or) Bing cached the page.

Just search for the full URL and hope that you can find it on one of the sites so you can at least copy the bulk of the content off.
DavidMIRV replied on at Permalink Reply
DavidMIRV
automating backups using your server or the new Backup option in 5.4 can help this. I don't think this is a flaw in C5, its never anyones fault for not having a backup except your own..
witwag replied on at Permalink Reply
witwag
Typical coder's point of view. Ask users how they feel about this :D
LucasAnderson replied on at Permalink Reply
LucasAnderson
Typical user's point of view. "This new (growing) product isn't 100% idiot-secure and doesn't do everything I need it to do, and since I messed up, it's the product's fault. This product sucks."

Fill out a feature request already.
hereNT replied on at Permalink Reply
hereNT
I have a new add-on in the marketplace that allows you to undelete pages. It won't help you for the page that you deleted, but it will help you with deleting pages once you've installed it:

http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/addons/recycle-bin/...

Basically it hooks into the page delete event, and instead of deleting the page it puts it into a holding area in the dashboard where you can restore them back to your site. The number of pages that are kept are controlled by a user-configurable amount of days or pages.
1PLM replied on at Permalink Reply
Yeah I think Concrete5 NOT prompting you before Delete as they do when you are re-arranging the full site map is a BIG Flaw. And WTF are the page versions for, if you cannot step back and Undo what you accidentally deleted? In my case I lost my Blog, because I had accidentally moved it onto another link, that I did not want. The system created two links of the same name and I deleted it, only to realize i deleted the child pages associated with it, and CANNOT use the previous version to have what you were working with before the Delete? Shoot!
witwag replied on at Permalink Reply
witwag
The page deletion problem has been adressed in version 5.5. For previous version there's the addon hereNT described in the post just above yours. So there's no more flaw I'd say :)
Sounds like what you did is just one of the typical problems that happen sometimes to all of us... Sorry for you but you'll get over it !