Frustrated with changing things
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Most of the online help seems to deal with adding things and not so much editing items that already exist. But adding can also be difficult.
For example, changing the existing "Links" sidebar of the about page on the Greek Yogurt theme design. When you click on the links block the first item in the popup menu is "Manage Stack Contents".
So far it's very intuitive. When I click on that item I would expect to see some type of an edit page with the existing stack items (Contact Us and Guestbook) in the list. Instead it is an empty list. I see no way to remove or >change< the existing items in the stack.
And that behavior is counter-intuitive IMHO. As I use concrete5 I seem to get frustrated like this often.
In order to get people up to speed faster it should be very easy to intuitively *change* things that come out of the box with the existing themes.
I see alot of promise, but so far for me I can't say the UI is very intuitive in it's operation.
For example, changing the existing "Links" sidebar of the about page on the Greek Yogurt theme design. When you click on the links block the first item in the popup menu is "Manage Stack Contents".
So far it's very intuitive. When I click on that item I would expect to see some type of an edit page with the existing stack items (Contact Us and Guestbook) in the list. Instead it is an empty list. I see no way to remove or >change< the existing items in the stack.
And that behavior is counter-intuitive IMHO. As I use concrete5 I seem to get frustrated like this often.
In order to get people up to speed faster it should be very easy to intuitively *change* things that come out of the box with the existing themes.
I see alot of promise, but so far for me I can't say the UI is very intuitive in it's operation.
There should actually be a small area you can click on to edit. Its not very intuitive, I agree, but it is there.
So how did you get to the page you attached an image of?
When you edit a page, then click on the auto-nav block, you don't see the image you attached. Rather, you see the small one I attached. This is the same menu for all blocks. When you select "edit" from that it is like the property panel, or the bigger image I attached.
I understand that these properties tell the code *how* to generate the list of links for the nav bar, but those criteria are extremely narrow and provide very little control of the visual nav bar contents.
For example, I see there is a guestbook from looking at the sitemap, and I would like it to appear on the main navigation menu. How is that accomplished? I also noticed that out of the box (Greek Yougurt theme) there is no sitemap.xml in the root of the installation. Is the sitemap on the dashboard supposed to be in sync with the sitemap.xml for the website? Why isn't there one by default for the Greek Yogurt theme?
According to what you read all over this website "it's as easy as clicking on it and changing it" NO WAY! And none of the videos and help I can find get into *How* to do the simple things like these:
How do I change the text on the footer?
How do I change the text that appears within a block when that text doesn't appear on the edit page (the page that you see when you click on a gray block and select edit)?
I have about 4 hours to get comfortable with concrete5 before I decide to scrap it and go with some other approach. I expect it will be spent on this forum trying to get questions answered.
I'm hoping for some "appifiny" and I'll "get it". If a seasoned UI designer and software developer is having this much trouble I'd be surprised if the avg person is any less frustrated. And we're not talking about esoteric and fringe features here, we're talking about basic text that appears on the page. Click to edit is far from a consistent method in concrete5from what I can see.
If you're thinking I'm just too blind to see the tree in the forest I'd sure be grateful for someone to help remove my blinders.
When you edit a page, then click on the auto-nav block, you don't see the image you attached. Rather, you see the small one I attached. This is the same menu for all blocks. When you select "edit" from that it is like the property panel, or the bigger image I attached.
I understand that these properties tell the code *how* to generate the list of links for the nav bar, but those criteria are extremely narrow and provide very little control of the visual nav bar contents.
For example, I see there is a guestbook from looking at the sitemap, and I would like it to appear on the main navigation menu. How is that accomplished? I also noticed that out of the box (Greek Yougurt theme) there is no sitemap.xml in the root of the installation. Is the sitemap on the dashboard supposed to be in sync with the sitemap.xml for the website? Why isn't there one by default for the Greek Yogurt theme?
According to what you read all over this website "it's as easy as clicking on it and changing it" NO WAY! And none of the videos and help I can find get into *How* to do the simple things like these:
How do I change the text on the footer?
How do I change the text that appears within a block when that text doesn't appear on the edit page (the page that you see when you click on a gray block and select edit)?
I have about 4 hours to get comfortable with concrete5 before I decide to scrap it and go with some other approach. I expect it will be spent on this forum trying to get questions answered.
I'm hoping for some "appifiny" and I'll "get it". If a seasoned UI designer and software developer is having this much trouble I'd be surprised if the avg person is any less frustrated. And we're not talking about esoteric and fringe features here, we're talking about basic text that appears on the page. Click to edit is far from a consistent method in concrete5from what I can see.
If you're thinking I'm just too blind to see the tree in the forest I'd sure be grateful for someone to help remove my blinders.
You get that page by clicking the manage stack contents link.
The autonav isn't for displaying specific pages. If you want to do that and have really granular control over the pages that appear, try this addon:
http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/addons/manual-nav/...
or this paid one.
http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/addons/clevyr-nav/...
The sitemap.xml will be generated once you run the sitemap job.
>How do I change the text in the footer?
Is it an area or not?
If you mean the copyright text, just edit the theme.
>How do I change the text that appears within a block when that text doesn't appear on the edit page?
I'm not sure what you mean here?
The text is probably dynamically generated if its not the content block.
Being a seasoned ui designer probably hinders you here, you're probably used to cms of an entirely different type here- so you have to forget before you learn if that makes any sense.
And if you are a software developer I'm surprised you haven't mucked through the source files a bit more to figure out how to do some of these things. They're pretty easy.
The autonav isn't for displaying specific pages. If you want to do that and have really granular control over the pages that appear, try this addon:
http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/addons/manual-nav/...
or this paid one.
http://www.concrete5.org/marketplace/addons/clevyr-nav/...
The sitemap.xml will be generated once you run the sitemap job.
>How do I change the text in the footer?
Is it an area or not?
If you mean the copyright text, just edit the theme.
>How do I change the text that appears within a block when that text doesn't appear on the edit page?
I'm not sure what you mean here?
The text is probably dynamically generated if its not the content block.
Being a seasoned ui designer probably hinders you here, you're probably used to cms of an entirely different type here- so you have to forget before you learn if that makes any sense.
And if you are a software developer I'm surprised you haven't mucked through the source files a bit more to figure out how to do some of these things. They're pretty easy.
Thanks for replying J. I have perused the code a bit to glean what I could quickly, but decided rather than invest my time doing that it made more sense to concentrate on the UI as I would need to understand that to relate it's use to my customer.
Its just a matter of time. I found it usually took a significant amount of time to become oriented to someone else's code / framework before I felt I knew it very well to muck with it.
The biggest obstacle in changing code on a platform like Joomla or c5 is knowing what is going to get clobbered on the next update or feature install. Again, I could study that & come up to speed but it just takes time. The point of any cms is to save time.
I see so much (hype) about how simple it is to "just click & edit" that just doesn't work that way as advertised.
Now that you say the auto-nav is a stack based block I can see other avenues I might pursue to edit it. But why aren't there any clues to point indicate some characteristics must be changed via changing the stack the auto-nav uses? And which stack needs to be edited? Are there more than one that affects auto-nav? Those are just a few questions that come to mind. Perhaps I just expect too much too early for an open source CMS project.
I'm sorry to be soo critical, because c5 has great potential. I may eventually come around, in time. I can see the c5 "edit in place" concept taking off over other approaches, especially as it becomes more consistent throughout the UI or at least include some clues to other places one needs to go to affect the visual characteristics of the item the user is trying to edit.
Documentation always lags the functional code, but it would be wonderful if each major block type had a reasonably thorough description of it's design, or at least a detailed functional description to go by.
I attached a couple of screen shots I'm trying to edit and having trouble with. You're right, the text is dynamically generated as a summary, but from what? It seems to be coming from an old version of a page.
I used the blog archive as a starting point for sharing monthly newsletters in PDF format. I changed the "hello world" blog entry and added a pdf file and the text of that blog. Perhaps changing a historical blog entry screws up the stack. The link that appears with the (old) blog text takes me to the current version, and that text isn't used for the summary.
I'm confused.
Its just a matter of time. I found it usually took a significant amount of time to become oriented to someone else's code / framework before I felt I knew it very well to muck with it.
The biggest obstacle in changing code on a platform like Joomla or c5 is knowing what is going to get clobbered on the next update or feature install. Again, I could study that & come up to speed but it just takes time. The point of any cms is to save time.
I see so much (hype) about how simple it is to "just click & edit" that just doesn't work that way as advertised.
Now that you say the auto-nav is a stack based block I can see other avenues I might pursue to edit it. But why aren't there any clues to point indicate some characteristics must be changed via changing the stack the auto-nav uses? And which stack needs to be edited? Are there more than one that affects auto-nav? Those are just a few questions that come to mind. Perhaps I just expect too much too early for an open source CMS project.
I'm sorry to be soo critical, because c5 has great potential. I may eventually come around, in time. I can see the c5 "edit in place" concept taking off over other approaches, especially as it becomes more consistent throughout the UI or at least include some clues to other places one needs to go to affect the visual characteristics of the item the user is trying to edit.
Documentation always lags the functional code, but it would be wonderful if each major block type had a reasonably thorough description of it's design, or at least a detailed functional description to go by.
I attached a couple of screen shots I'm trying to edit and having trouble with. You're right, the text is dynamically generated as a summary, but from what? It seems to be coming from an old version of a page.
I used the blog archive as a starting point for sharing monthly newsletters in PDF format. I changed the "hello world" blog entry and added a pdf file and the text of that blog. Perhaps changing a historical blog entry screws up the stack. The link that appears with the (old) blog text takes me to the current version, and that text isn't used for the summary.
I'm confused.
> The biggest obstacle in changing code on a platform like Joomla or c5 is knowing what is going to get clobbered on the next update or feature install. Again, I could study that & come up to speed but it just takes time. The point of any cms is to save time.
check this out:
http://www.concrete5.org/documentation/introduction/overrides/...
Btw, autonav isn't always a stack, but it can be one.
In terms of docs, check outhttp://www.concrete5.org/documentation/using-concrete5/in-page-edit...
http://www.concrete5.org/documentation/using-concrete5/in-page-edit...
http://www.concrete5.org/documentation/using-concrete5/dashboard/st...
http://www.concrete5.org/documentation/using-concrete5/in-page-edit...
(all under the editors guide section)
> I attached a couple of screen shots I'm trying to edit and having trouble with. You're right, the text is dynamically generated as a summary, but from what? It seems to be coming from an old version of a page.
look through the properties tab- specifically, page description.
http://www.concrete5.org/documentation/using-concrete5/in-page-edit...
>The Description is used by some blocks like the Page List block for navigations
That help?
I'd definitely check out the editors guide though if you have a basic problem. Chances are, its described at least at a basic level.
Jack
Thanks again Jack for your patience. Had I not discovered the page description property on my own your comment about it would definitely have helped.
I did look over the guides but didn't find solutions to what I was trying to do. Another example is the page header section at the very top of the Greek Yogurt theme. I can set it's background but I really want the block that appears just below it to be at the top.
Perhaps that aspect of the theme can't be changed with inline edit? It's not an editable block (no red outline).
I discovered you can get to quite a few editable characteristics from the properties menu item on the sitemap off the dashboard.
There is a description that appears on what was the "hello world" page I couldn't find how to edit. Thought that was a summary for the blog entry, but it is just the description. You can't edit the description from the page it appears on. It took me awhile to figure out where that text was.
One weird issue I'm not sure I've fully overcome yet is migrating to another hosting account (both are on Hostmonster). I discovered & installed c5 under a subdirectory of my hosting account, played around with it a little and successfully migrated the entire site & it's database onto my laptop running XAMPP. It uses mysql 5.1.44, php 5.30 and apache ?
No problem, figured out the DB setup in config/site.php and I continued to edit & play around with the site locally.
When I tried to migrate the exact same files I used to migrate from the original Hostmonster account onto my client's HM account, I kept getting "an error occurred connecting to the database". I double checked everything and even logged in with phpmyadmin using the DB connection parameters that were in site.php.
I suspect there was some simple brain dead thing I forgot causing the issue, but tried 5 or 6 times, transferring the files over again, dropping the DB etc, all in vain. Verified the sql & zip files installed OK in another folder on my laptop. I was about to give up.
My last attempt was to generate new SQL & ZIP files from the original test installation and reinstall on my client's account. That worked! Who knows what that was all about.
Anyway, I've made significant changes on my laptop and am going to try once again to migrate from there. If it fails to work on the first attempt I'm not going to bother figuring out why, I'll just recreate the changes in place and move on.
I don't think that difficulty was a c5 issue, but it was rather frustrating. I really can't explain it.
Again, thanks for your patience & your help Jack. Have a great weekend!
I did look over the guides but didn't find solutions to what I was trying to do. Another example is the page header section at the very top of the Greek Yogurt theme. I can set it's background but I really want the block that appears just below it to be at the top.
Perhaps that aspect of the theme can't be changed with inline edit? It's not an editable block (no red outline).
I discovered you can get to quite a few editable characteristics from the properties menu item on the sitemap off the dashboard.
There is a description that appears on what was the "hello world" page I couldn't find how to edit. Thought that was a summary for the blog entry, but it is just the description. You can't edit the description from the page it appears on. It took me awhile to figure out where that text was.
One weird issue I'm not sure I've fully overcome yet is migrating to another hosting account (both are on Hostmonster). I discovered & installed c5 under a subdirectory of my hosting account, played around with it a little and successfully migrated the entire site & it's database onto my laptop running XAMPP. It uses mysql 5.1.44, php 5.30 and apache ?
No problem, figured out the DB setup in config/site.php and I continued to edit & play around with the site locally.
When I tried to migrate the exact same files I used to migrate from the original Hostmonster account onto my client's HM account, I kept getting "an error occurred connecting to the database". I double checked everything and even logged in with phpmyadmin using the DB connection parameters that were in site.php.
I suspect there was some simple brain dead thing I forgot causing the issue, but tried 5 or 6 times, transferring the files over again, dropping the DB etc, all in vain. Verified the sql & zip files installed OK in another folder on my laptop. I was about to give up.
My last attempt was to generate new SQL & ZIP files from the original test installation and reinstall on my client's account. That worked! Who knows what that was all about.
Anyway, I've made significant changes on my laptop and am going to try once again to migrate from there. If it fails to work on the first attempt I'm not going to bother figuring out why, I'll just recreate the changes in place and move on.
I don't think that difficulty was a c5 issue, but it was rather frustrating. I really can't explain it.
Again, thanks for your patience & your help Jack. Have a great weekend!
Well, I had only one problem migrating from my laptop to the client's hosting account.
I replaced the auto-nav with the manual-nav block you suggested. Easy enough, and works well on my laptop.
1) I made sure everything was published and nobody logged in.
2) I deleted the files/cache/* and files/tmp/* as instructed in the host migration guide. The updates folder was empty.
3) I used c5's backup to generate a DB dump.
4) Zipped the concrete folder & transferred it to the server.
5) Used phpmyadmin to delete all tables of the existing _cnc1 DB on the client's hosting account (BTW, c5 was working before I started this migration)
6) Used phpmyadmin to import the sql file generated by c5 on my laptop
7) Deleted all of the files in the concrete installation folder except config. Renamed config to config1.
8) Unzipped the zip file transferred in step 4.
9) renamed the config folder to config2, and renamed config1 to config.
Concrete 5 works with my changes, EXCEPT there is no nav. I went to the marketplace to install but it didn't find it, presumably as I already had it installed. Going to the dashboard-> blocks showed the manual nav was in place. Now it doesn't show up!!! I am trying to add it but am having great difficulty. Seems I can only download for one site??? I finally got a zip file for it downloaded but now I need to figure out how to install it. The dang darn marketplace doesn't show any results when I search on the string "manual nav" (no quotes). I stumbled around and finally got to my project page which lists all 3 sites I've been playing with. The site I reached the marketplace through is the client's site I need to install manual nav on.
When I first logged in after migrating the site I got an error when I tried to add the manual nav block. The error was "Fatal error: Class name must be a valid object or a string in /home3/uufmtnho/public_html/concrete/startup/process.php on line 858". It's in the list but apparently something wasn't fully entrenched.
Why would a fully functional c5 installation on my laptop fail to transfer completely? Why is there a LICENSE RESTRICTION for a free add on????? Urggg!!
How do you associate an item "saved for later" in your cart to one of your projects, and why doesn't the add on show up when you search for it by name explicitly?
I replaced the auto-nav with the manual-nav block you suggested. Easy enough, and works well on my laptop.
1) I made sure everything was published and nobody logged in.
2) I deleted the files/cache/* and files/tmp/* as instructed in the host migration guide. The updates folder was empty.
3) I used c5's backup to generate a DB dump.
4) Zipped the concrete folder & transferred it to the server.
5) Used phpmyadmin to delete all tables of the existing _cnc1 DB on the client's hosting account (BTW, c5 was working before I started this migration)
6) Used phpmyadmin to import the sql file generated by c5 on my laptop
7) Deleted all of the files in the concrete installation folder except config. Renamed config to config1.
8) Unzipped the zip file transferred in step 4.
9) renamed the config folder to config2, and renamed config1 to config.
Concrete 5 works with my changes, EXCEPT there is no nav. I went to the marketplace to install but it didn't find it, presumably as I already had it installed. Going to the dashboard-> blocks showed the manual nav was in place. Now it doesn't show up!!! I am trying to add it but am having great difficulty. Seems I can only download for one site??? I finally got a zip file for it downloaded but now I need to figure out how to install it. The dang darn marketplace doesn't show any results when I search on the string "manual nav" (no quotes). I stumbled around and finally got to my project page which lists all 3 sites I've been playing with. The site I reached the marketplace through is the client's site I need to install manual nav on.
When I first logged in after migrating the site I got an error when I tried to add the manual nav block. The error was "Fatal error: Class name must be a valid object or a string in /home3/uufmtnho/public_html/concrete/startup/process.php on line 858". It's in the list but apparently something wasn't fully entrenched.
Why would a fully functional c5 installation on my laptop fail to transfer completely? Why is there a LICENSE RESTRICTION for a free add on????? Urggg!!
How do you associate an item "saved for later" in your cart to one of your projects, and why doesn't the add on show up when you search for it by name explicitly?
That link to the overrides explanation was very helpful indeed.
On my laptop I see the manual_nav under theRoot/packages. On both systems I see two tables used by the manual_nav block.
I'm getting used to c5, slowly. I've been vocal about dissatisfaction primarily based on the expectations set by the c5 website. My perspective in terms of those expectations has changed very little, but c5 is way way better than no cms and alot better than many.
I'm confident it will not only get better but that I will grow to rely on it more & more.
Thanks again Jack for your help and your patience with my grumbling attitude.
On my laptop I see the manual_nav under theRoot/packages. On both systems I see two tables used by the manual_nav block.
I'm getting used to c5, slowly. I've been vocal about dissatisfaction primarily based on the expectations set by the c5 website. My perspective in terms of those expectations has changed very little, but c5 is way way better than no cms and alot better than many.
I'm confident it will not only get better but that I will grow to rely on it more & more.
Thanks again Jack for your help and your patience with my grumbling attitude.
