What happened to the simplicity of editing in v8?
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I'm using the new v8RC1 a lot now and I love it just as I loved 5.7. But there are two really annoying issues, and nobody seems to care until now:
- The new inline editor configuration has so much overload. I loved 5.7 for the slim editor, doing style with CSS instead of direct formatting. Opposite in v8: Colors, direct formatting, ... In v8 it really overstrains people working on texts, especially the new popups for links and tables. Why should I give the editor so much freedom? It does not make any sense to me in an environment where editors do not have (and should not have!) an idea of what is good design or what technically is a link. Sure I can configure the editor to some extend, but especially the link and table popups are much worse compared to the old one from 5.7.
- The new file manager popup is confusing (maybe this is just an UI issue with the new transparent headers in the popup) and it takes much more clicks to upload a single file and use it in a block. This is a quite common scenario where an editor just wants to add or change an image in a block. Why is he forced to do so many clicks, where less clicks where enough in 5.7?
These two issue are important for the daily work in Concrete5. Is there any chance to get it more close to 5.7?
BTW, why can't I find an "8.0 Discussion" forum? :)
- The new inline editor configuration has so much overload. I loved 5.7 for the slim editor, doing style with CSS instead of direct formatting. Opposite in v8: Colors, direct formatting, ... In v8 it really overstrains people working on texts, especially the new popups for links and tables. Why should I give the editor so much freedom? It does not make any sense to me in an environment where editors do not have (and should not have!) an idea of what is good design or what technically is a link. Sure I can configure the editor to some extend, but especially the link and table popups are much worse compared to the old one from 5.7.
- The new file manager popup is confusing (maybe this is just an UI issue with the new transparent headers in the popup) and it takes much more clicks to upload a single file and use it in a block. This is a quite common scenario where an editor just wants to add or change an image in a block. Why is he forced to do so many clicks, where less clicks where enough in 5.7?
These two issue are important for the daily work in Concrete5. Is there any chance to get it more close to 5.7?
BTW, why can't I find an "8.0 Discussion" forum? :)
There is also an open GitHub issue about the usability aspects (don't mind the title of the issue, the discussion involves a lot more than only Dashboard):
https://github.com/concrete5/concrete5/issues/3916...
Maybe you should also raise your concerns there with some good images that demonstrate your suggestions on how to improve them.
https://github.com/concrete5/concrete5/issues/3916...
Maybe you should also raise your concerns there with some good images that demonstrate your suggestions on how to improve them.
Thanks! I posted there :)
I do not believe that CKEditor will get better - they had time enough. I know this editor for years, and it looked much the same years ago ...
For me CKEditor ist the Wordpress of editors: It doesn't do things very good, but everyone uses it nonetheless.
For me CKEditor ist the Wordpress of editors: It doesn't do things very good, but everyone uses it nonetheless.
I agree, redactor's simplicity was an asset.
One of my client is getting her site redesigned (legacy c5)
she used and abused of font sizing and alignments and stuff like that and now the designer is going crazy because all that is there and can't be overridden with css and there are thousands of page.
That happened because the original designer didn't explain to her how to use classes in the editor and didn't explain the danger of using those editing functions that make styling choices carved in stone.
One of my client is getting her site redesigned (legacy c5)
she used and abused of font sizing and alignments and stuff like that and now the designer is going crazy because all that is there and can't be overridden with css and there are thousands of page.
That happened because the original designer didn't explain to her how to use classes in the editor and didn't explain the danger of using those editing functions that make styling choices carved in stone.
That's exactly the point! It just produces bad HTML that is neither future proof nor does it fit well in a responsive design.
I used CKEdtior years before and I always found it to be over-featured.
Why can't I just switch between the two editors?
I used CKEdtior years before and I always found it to be over-featured.
Why can't I just switch between the two editors?
I'm with you on that one but my understanding was that most were complaining about the lack of features and I think there were some problems with redactor but I'm not sure which
This is because in v8 the core integrates with CKEditor which is completely different editor than Redactor what used to be there. It was switched because most of the community wanted to get a truly open source editor into the core and also many people were constantly asking features to be added to the editor that could already be provided by something like CKEditor through existing functionality or plugins. I find this good change and it also kind of future proofs the editor development for c5.
I do agree that the default configuration that the default installation comes with would not have to be as overwhelming as it currently is. If someone needs the extra features they want, they could just edit the config and enable them.
Also in blocks such as Feature that display the editor within a very tiny modal window, I think there are too many options displayed in the CKEditor.
Regarding the link and image popups, I guess they are just using what comes bundled with CKEditor with the buttons that allow you to select assets from c5. This is generally a good idea for consistency and I think the possible usability issues in these features should be solved by the CKEditor community, not the concrete5 community:
http://ckeditor.com/forums
I also agree that the table option is not generally needed for most of the cases in the editor. I think tables would be better handled with a dedicated block type rather than including them in the content block.
= File manager / modal windows =
I also personally don't like that the modal/dialog window titles do not have any background behind them. It makes them very confusing looking as you would normally expect anything appearing outside of the modal not to be part of the modal itself. I think the file manager usability issue that you mention is largely due to this because otherwise I find the file selection quite similar than before.
I also noticed that you can drag the file chooser window outside of the view without any scroll appearing to the page. So you are actually able to mess the view so that you cannot access the file chooser window anymore.